[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

Sudhanshu Shekhar sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com
Fri Dec 22 01:25:51 EST 2023

Namaste Bhaskar ji.

You need to acquaint yourself of the difference between vijnAnavAda and
mukhya-vedAnta-siddhAnta namely DSV. Perhaps, you can then appreciate that
the tarka adduced are not ku-tarka rather heart and soul of VedAnta.

In any case, labelling the argument as ku-tarka without any counterargument
is worthy of being ignored.

Before running to BhAshyakAra, we need to understand our own experience.
That there was a BhAshyakAra who wrote PTB, said this and that in MANDukya
and BSB -- are not sufficient to indicate non-dream-hood of waking -- on
the solitary ground that you told exactly same thing in dream also. There
was a dream-Shankara and dream-BSB saying these things and yet it was only
a dream.

Namaste AchArya ji.

3. The dream is realized as false only after waking up. One cannot realize
> this while in the dream.

Through logic preceded by experience, the dream-hood of world can be known
even if the world is not sublated. "Waking up" is nothing but substitution
of one dream by another dream.

4. Waking is also not absolutely real by the above definition.

Waking is identical to dream as there exists no parameter based whereupon
the both can be distinguished.

> 5. Deep sleep experience shows that one who is sleeping alone is really
> real while the worlds - waking and dream worlds are dismissed along with
> time and space.

The really real never sleeps. He sees the presence of world in dream and
absence of world in sushupti. He always sees. He never sleeps because His
vision is never lost.

> 6. In contrast to a dream, one can realize that the waking state is not
> real by developing the required discriminative intellect (*nithya anitya
> vastu viveka*).

The dream-hood of waking is arrived by logic preceded by experience. Waking
and dream are identical. To aver //That intellect cannot be developed in
the dream state since intellect has to be at a minimum for one to go into a
dream state.// is putting the cart before the horse as waking has not been
established to be distinct from dream.

7. Drishti Srishti vas Srishti Drishti perspectives depend on the mind.
> Deep sleep experience indicates that other than the self in that state,
> there is no world or time - no other jeevas also - showing DSV. Also,
> perceptual analysis (Vedanta Paribhasha) shows that the 'existence of an
> object (including other jeeva) is established by the knowledge of its
> existence. In essence, I, the subject has to ascertain - an object, the
> other Bodies, and the world exist by perceiving them. From the point of
> perceiver who is in the world of objects, SDV is valid.

DSV states there is singular jIva, SDV says there are multi-jIva. That is
the basic difference. DSV assumes jnAtaika-sattA of world whereas SDV
assumes ajnAta-satta of world. They are suitable in accordance with
gradation of adhikarI.

> 8. Realization can take place only in the waking state with the mind that
> has *sadhana chutushtaya sampatti* or needed qualifications.

No difference between waking and dream.

> Just could not resist.

It is an irresistible topic. It is the crux and heart of VedAnta. In fact,
all topics are inter-connected.


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