[Advaita-l] Narada Purana - Returning to earth even after attaining the Vaishnava-Parama pada

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Subbu ji

kārya vaikunṭha ≈ a grade of svarga
nitya vaikunṭha ≈ satya loka

But is this distinction mentioned by Sri Ramanujacharya anywhere?

For us, even satya loka is a ‘returnable’ loka.

Om
Raghav

On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 at 11:53 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 11:29 AM Sangeerth P <psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Its karya Vaikuntham not karana sir. Karya(effect of srushti)
> >
>
> OK, is this karya vaikuntha on the same level as Brahma loka and Shiva
> loka?
>
> regards
> subbu
>
> >
> > Regards
> > Sangeerth P
> > 8608658009
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Aug 2025, 11:26 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:33 PM Sangeerth P <
> psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Namaste sir
> >>>
> >>> 1. The Mahalakshmi ashtotram acceptability in what sense I am not able
> >>> to understand sir. Also it was just an example that I wanted to tell.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Since the Ashtottaram says  *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai Namaha*,
> >> Mahalakshmi will have to be the antaryami of Vishnu too. Is this
> acceptable
> >> to Srivaishnavas?  For the Atharvashikha mantra 'Brahma Vishnu Rudra
> Indra
> >> - all are born of Shambhu', Ramanuja in his Vedarthasangraha says: while
> >> Brahma, Rudra, etc. are born of their karma, Vishnu here is avatara.
> >> Shambhu here is Narayana.  So says Ramanuja.
> >>
> >> Also what is meant by kārana vaikuntha? Is this vaikuntha the cause -
> for
> >> what?
> >>
> >> regards
> >> subbu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> 2. As I have told its an Arthapaththi pramana. You infer at which place
> >>> Vishnu refers to the one in Karya Vaikunta and at which place Vishnu
> refers
> >>> to Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntam. Its purely inferential and will come
> through
> >>> the lineage. Because the same place (Vaikunta) cant be told be
> >>> un-returnable as well as returnable. It would be a contradictory. And
> hence
> >>> this has to be taken through Arthapathi pramanam.
> >>> 3. As told in the above point in Katha Upanishad one refers to the
> >>> Vishnu in Sri Vaikuntam(Nitya vibhuti). Narada purana would refer to
> Karya
> >>> Vaikuntam.
> >>> Regards
> >>> Sangeerth P
> >>> 8608658009
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:04 PM V Subrahmanian <
> >>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 9:25 PM Sangeerth P via Advaita-l <
> >>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In Vishishtadvaita philosophy, we make a clear distinction between
> >>>>> *Vishnu*
> >>>>> and *Narayana* in certain contexts. For example, in the *Mahalakshmi
> >>>>> Ashtothram*, one of Mahalakshmi’s names is
> >>>>> *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai
> >>>>> Namaha*. If Narayana is the *Aadhara* (support) of everything, and if
> >>>>> Vishnu and Narayana were entirely identical in all aspects, then how
> >>>>> could
> >>>>> Mahalakshmi be described as the *Atma* (inner self) of Vishnu?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Namaste
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this *Mahalakshmi Ashtothram* acceptable to Srivaishnavas? Also, is
> >>>> the two-type Vaikuntha that Ramanuja system accepts, admitted in any
> Purana
> >>>> like the Bhagavatam?  There we see the Jaya-Vijaya episode happening
> in
> >>>> 'Vaikuntha' and no adjective like kārya is added there.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the Rangaramanuja Kathopanishad bhashya we see:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 4. कठोपनिषत् - प्रथमा वल्ली
> >>>> - मम उपदेशात्, जानीहि इत्यर्थः । ज्ञानस्य फलं दर्शयति - स्वर्ग्यमग्निं
> >>>> इति । अनन्तस्य - विष्णोः लोकः, तत्प्राप्तिम् । *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम्'
> *(क.उ.३-९)
> >>>> इति उत्तरत्र वक्ष्यमाणत्वात् । अथो - तत्प्राप्यनन्तरं प्रतिष्ठाम् -
> *अपुनरावृत्तिं
> >>>> *च; 'लभते' इति शेषः ।
> >>>>
> >>>> The above says: tad vishnoH paramam padam = the mukti from where
> *there
> >>>> is no return.* In the Narada Purana verses cited, we have this
> >>>> alluding to that  *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम् ।*। २३-८७  from where the
> people
> >>>> return after experiencing bhoga for long.
> >>>>
> >>>> regards
> >>>> subbu
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Similarly, consider the episode of the Sanakadi Rishis reaching
> >>>>> Vaikuntha
> >>>>> and cursing Jaya and Vijaya. Even after this, we see Jaya and Vijaya
> >>>>> born
> >>>>> in the material realm. This raises two important points:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    1.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    If the Sanat Kumaras had truly reached *Nitya Vaikuntha*, they
> >>>>> would not
> >>>>>    be seen anywhere else, such as in Brahmaloka. But we see that at
> the
> >>>>>    beginning of Bhagavatham's Mahatmyam only there is Narada and
> Sanat
> >>>>> kumara
> >>>>>    samvada which is at the beginning of Kali yuga. And the Jaya
> vijaya
> >>>>>    incident should have happened very before this meeting.
> >>>>>    2.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    If Vaikuntha were a place of *non-return*, then the curse on Jaya
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>    Vijaya could not have led them back into *samsara*.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thus in Vishishtadvaita, we clearly differentiate between two realms:
> >>>>> *Karya
> >>>>> Vaikuntha* and *Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntha*. It is the *Nitya Vibhuti
> >>>>> Vaikuntha* that is the true eternal, non-returnable abode, not the
> >>>>> Karya
> >>>>> Vaikuntha. For instance, in the *Uttara Kanda* of the Ramayana, when
> >>>>> Lord
> >>>>> Rama takes all the people of Ayodhya to His *Dham*, this refers to
> >>>>> *Karya
> >>>>> Vaikuntha*, not Nitya Vaikuntha. As per the siddhanta, the mukti can
> be
> >>>>> obtained either by Bhakthi yogam or Sharanagati.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This understanding is supported by *Arthapatti Pramana.*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Sangeerth P
> >>>>> 8608658009
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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