[Advaita-l] Narada Purana - Returning to earth even after attaining the Vaishnava-Parama pada

[Sangeerth P]

Yes sir. We actually say this is a returnable loka only and bakthi yoga or
prapatti is the means to reach the non returnable nitya vibhuti Vaikuntam.

Regards
Sangeerth P
8608658009

On Tue, 12 Aug 2025, 11:52 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 11:29 AM Sangeerth P <psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Its karya Vaikuntham not karana sir. Karya(effect of srushti)
>>
>
> OK, is this karya vaikuntha on the same level as Brahma loka and Shiva
> loka?
>
> regards
> subbu
>
>>
>> Regards
>> Sangeerth P
>> 8608658009
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2025, 11:26 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:33 PM Sangeerth P <psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste sir
>>>>
>>>> 1. The Mahalakshmi ashtotram acceptability in what sense I am not able
>>>> to understand sir. Also it was just an example that I wanted to tell.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since the Ashtottaram says  *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai Namaha*,
>>> Mahalakshmi will have to be the antaryami of Vishnu too. Is this acceptable
>>> to Srivaishnavas?  For the Atharvashikha mantra 'Brahma Vishnu Rudra Indra
>>> - all are born of Shambhu', Ramanuja in his Vedarthasangraha says: while
>>> Brahma, Rudra, etc. are born of their karma, Vishnu here is avatara.
>>> Shambhu here is Narayana.  So says Ramanuja.
>>>
>>> Also what is meant by kārana vaikuntha? Is this vaikuntha the cause -
>>> for what?
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subbu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2. As I have told its an Arthapaththi pramana. You infer at which place
>>>> Vishnu refers to the one in Karya Vaikunta and at which place Vishnu refers
>>>> to Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntam. Its purely inferential and will come through
>>>> the lineage. Because the same place (Vaikunta) cant be told be
>>>> un-returnable as well as returnable. It would be a contradictory. And hence
>>>> this has to be taken through Arthapathi pramanam.
>>>> 3. As told in the above point in Katha Upanishad one refers to the
>>>> Vishnu in Sri Vaikuntam(Nitya vibhuti). Narada purana would refer to Karya
>>>> Vaikuntam.
>>>> Regards
>>>> Sangeerth P
>>>> 8608658009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:04 PM V Subrahmanian <
>>>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 9:25 PM Sangeerth P via Advaita-l <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In Vishishtadvaita philosophy, we make a clear distinction between
>>>>>> *Vishnu*
>>>>>> and *Narayana* in certain contexts. For example, in the *Mahalakshmi
>>>>>> Ashtothram*, one of Mahalakshmi’s names is
>>>>>> *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai
>>>>>> Namaha*. If Narayana is the *Aadhara* (support) of everything, and if
>>>>>> Vishnu and Narayana were entirely identical in all aspects, then how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> Mahalakshmi be described as the *Atma* (inner self) of Vishnu?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Namaste
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this *Mahalakshmi Ashtothram* acceptable to Srivaishnavas? Also, is
>>>>> the two-type Vaikuntha that Ramanuja system accepts, admitted in any Purana
>>>>> like the Bhagavatam?  There we see the Jaya-Vijaya episode happening in
>>>>> 'Vaikuntha' and no adjective like kārya is added there.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the Rangaramanuja Kathopanishad bhashya we see:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. कठोपनिषत् - प्रथमा वल्ली
>>>>> - मम उपदेशात्, जानीहि इत्यर्थः । ज्ञानस्य फलं दर्शयति - स्वर्ग्यमग्निं
>>>>> इति । अनन्तस्य - विष्णोः लोकः, तत्प्राप्तिम् । *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम्'
>>>>> *(क.उ.३-९) इति उत्तरत्र वक्ष्यमाणत्वात् । अथो - तत्प्राप्यनन्तरं
>>>>> प्रतिष्ठाम् - *अपुनरावृत्तिं *च; 'लभते' इति शेषः ।
>>>>>
>>>>> The above says: tad vishnoH paramam padam = the mukti from where *there
>>>>> is no return.* In the Narada Purana verses cited, we have this
>>>>> alluding to that  *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम् ।*। २३-८७  from where the people
>>>>> return after experiencing bhoga for long.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>> subbu
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly, consider the episode of the Sanakadi Rishis reaching
>>>>>> Vaikuntha
>>>>>> and cursing Jaya and Vijaya. Even after this, we see Jaya and Vijaya
>>>>>> born
>>>>>> in the material realm. This raises two important points:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    If the Sanat Kumaras had truly reached *Nitya Vaikuntha*, they
>>>>>> would not
>>>>>>    be seen anywhere else, such as in Brahmaloka. But we see that at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>    beginning of Bhagavatham's Mahatmyam only there is Narada and
>>>>>> Sanat kumara
>>>>>>    samvada which is at the beginning of Kali yuga. And the Jaya vijaya
>>>>>>    incident should have happened very before this meeting.
>>>>>>    2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    If Vaikuntha were a place of *non-return*, then the curse on Jaya
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>    Vijaya could not have led them back into *samsara*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus in Vishishtadvaita, we clearly differentiate between two realms:
>>>>>> *Karya
>>>>>> Vaikuntha* and *Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntha*. It is the *Nitya Vibhuti
>>>>>> Vaikuntha* that is the true eternal, non-returnable abode, not the
>>>>>> Karya
>>>>>> Vaikuntha. For instance, in the *Uttara Kanda* of the Ramayana, when
>>>>>> Lord
>>>>>> Rama takes all the people of Ayodhya to His *Dham*, this refers to
>>>>>> *Karya
>>>>>> Vaikuntha*, not Nitya Vaikuntha. As per the siddhanta, the mukti can
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> obtained either by Bhakthi yogam or Sharanagati.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This understanding is supported by *Arthapatti Pramana.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Sangeerth P
>>>>>> 8608658009
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>