[Advaita-l] Narada Purana - Returning to earth even after attaining the Vaishnava-Parama pada

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 11:29 AM Sangeerth P <psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Its karya Vaikuntham not karana sir. Karya(effect of srushti)
>

OK, is this karya vaikuntha on the same level as Brahma loka and Shiva
loka?

regards
subbu

>
> Regards
> Sangeerth P
> 8608658009
>
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2025, 11:26 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:33 PM Sangeerth P <psangeerthgenius at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste sir
>>>
>>> 1. The Mahalakshmi ashtotram acceptability in what sense I am not able
>>> to understand sir. Also it was just an example that I wanted to tell.
>>>
>>
>> Since the Ashtottaram says  *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai Namaha*,
>> Mahalakshmi will have to be the antaryami of Vishnu too. Is this acceptable
>> to Srivaishnavas?  For the Atharvashikha mantra 'Brahma Vishnu Rudra Indra
>> - all are born of Shambhu', Ramanuja in his Vedarthasangraha says: while
>> Brahma, Rudra, etc. are born of their karma, Vishnu here is avatara.
>> Shambhu here is Narayana.  So says Ramanuja.
>>
>> Also what is meant by kārana vaikuntha? Is this vaikuntha the cause - for
>> what?
>>
>> regards
>> subbu
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2. As I have told its an Arthapaththi pramana. You infer at which place
>>> Vishnu refers to the one in Karya Vaikunta and at which place Vishnu refers
>>> to Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntam. Its purely inferential and will come through
>>> the lineage. Because the same place (Vaikunta) cant be told be
>>> un-returnable as well as returnable. It would be a contradictory. And hence
>>> this has to be taken through Arthapathi pramanam.
>>> 3. As told in the above point in Katha Upanishad one refers to the
>>> Vishnu in Sri Vaikuntam(Nitya vibhuti). Narada purana would refer to Karya
>>> Vaikuntam.
>>> Regards
>>> Sangeerth P
>>> 8608658009
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 11:04 PM V Subrahmanian <
>>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 9:25 PM Sangeerth P via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In Vishishtadvaita philosophy, we make a clear distinction between
>>>>> *Vishnu*
>>>>> and *Narayana* in certain contexts. For example, in the *Mahalakshmi
>>>>> Ashtothram*, one of Mahalakshmi’s names is
>>>>> *Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva-Atmikayai
>>>>> Namaha*. If Narayana is the *Aadhara* (support) of everything, and if
>>>>> Vishnu and Narayana were entirely identical in all aspects, then how
>>>>> could
>>>>> Mahalakshmi be described as the *Atma* (inner self) of Vishnu?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Namaste
>>>>
>>>> Is this *Mahalakshmi Ashtothram* acceptable to Srivaishnavas? Also, is
>>>> the two-type Vaikuntha that Ramanuja system accepts, admitted in any Purana
>>>> like the Bhagavatam?  There we see the Jaya-Vijaya episode happening in
>>>> 'Vaikuntha' and no adjective like kārya is added there.
>>>>
>>>> In the Rangaramanuja Kathopanishad bhashya we see:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. कठोपनिषत् - प्रथमा वल्ली
>>>> - मम उपदेशात्, जानीहि इत्यर्थः । ज्ञानस्य फलं दर्शयति - स्वर्ग्यमग्निं
>>>> इति । अनन्तस्य - विष्णोः लोकः, तत्प्राप्तिम् । *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम्' *(क.उ.३-९)
>>>> इति उत्तरत्र वक्ष्यमाणत्वात् । अथो - तत्प्राप्यनन्तरं प्रतिष्ठाम् - *अपुनरावृत्तिं
>>>> *च; 'लभते' इति शेषः ।
>>>>
>>>> The above says: tad vishnoH paramam padam = the mukti from where *there
>>>> is no return.* In the Narada Purana verses cited, we have this
>>>> alluding to that  *तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम् ।*। २३-८७  from where the people
>>>> return after experiencing bhoga for long.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> subbu
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, consider the episode of the Sanakadi Rishis reaching
>>>>> Vaikuntha
>>>>> and cursing Jaya and Vijaya. Even after this, we see Jaya and Vijaya
>>>>> born
>>>>> in the material realm. This raises two important points:
>>>>>
>>>>>    1.
>>>>>
>>>>>    If the Sanat Kumaras had truly reached *Nitya Vaikuntha*, they
>>>>> would not
>>>>>    be seen anywhere else, such as in Brahmaloka. But we see that at the
>>>>>    beginning of Bhagavatham's Mahatmyam only there is Narada and Sanat
>>>>> kumara
>>>>>    samvada which is at the beginning of Kali yuga. And the Jaya vijaya
>>>>>    incident should have happened very before this meeting.
>>>>>    2.
>>>>>
>>>>>    If Vaikuntha were a place of *non-return*, then the curse on Jaya
>>>>> and
>>>>>    Vijaya could not have led them back into *samsara*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus in Vishishtadvaita, we clearly differentiate between two realms:
>>>>> *Karya
>>>>> Vaikuntha* and *Nitya Vibhuti Vaikuntha*. It is the *Nitya Vibhuti
>>>>> Vaikuntha* that is the true eternal, non-returnable abode, not the
>>>>> Karya
>>>>> Vaikuntha. For instance, in the *Uttara Kanda* of the Ramayana, when
>>>>> Lord
>>>>> Rama takes all the people of Ayodhya to His *Dham*, this refers to
>>>>> *Karya
>>>>> Vaikuntha*, not Nitya Vaikuntha. As per the siddhanta, the mukti can be
>>>>> obtained either by Bhakthi yogam or Sharanagati.
>>>>>
>>>>> This understanding is supported by *Arthapatti Pramana.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Sangeerth P
>>>>> 8608658009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>