[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Bhaskar ji,
I meant the locus of the snake is not the mind, it is the place outside.

In my opinion, bhAShyakAra's phrase buddhiparikalpitena, should mean
buddhyA parikalpitena and not necessarily buddhau parikalpitena, ie, the
snake is imagined *by* the mind, not that that snake is located *in* the
mind.

The context of my comment is, as you rightly point out, the
pratikarmavyavasthA that has been elaborately discussed by post Shankara
AchArya-s, involving artha and jnAna adhyAsa. I don't think merely that one
phrase in the bhAShya rules out the entire support structure, when there
are alternative explanations available.

The reason for the adhyasta object to be postulated to be *outside* is
because of the perceptual experience "I saw it *there*" and the pravRtti
towards (shell silver) or away from it (rope snake). Even though after the
sublation one knows that there is no object outside in reality, one does
not deny the fact that one had perceived it outside. One denies the
validity of that perception in the past because there is no corresponding
object outside in reality.

It is not like a memory where even during the recollection one is aware
that one is not perceiving a memory and one is merely recollecting what was
seen. In the adhyAsa, there are certain perceptual elements - ie there is
sensory contact with the locus of the adhyAsa (samprayoga). It is a product
of a defect in the mind (doShajanyatva) - which differentiate it from
memory, which is purely a mental construct, located in the mind.

That is why in the adhyAsa bhAShya, the bhAshyakAra uses the phrase
smRtirUpah, like a memory, to indicate that the adhyAsa shares with smRti
the characteristic of arising due to samskAra, but is not smRti itself,
because it is also doShajanya and has  samprayoga. It is also the reason he
adds the word paratra in that bhAShya (smRtirUpah paratra
pUrvadRShTAvabhAsah), to indicate that the object was seen to be elsewhere,
a particular location outside where something else was present.

On that basis I agree that it is the doSha located in the mind which acts
as a nimitta for the adhyAsa, but in my view that is not sufficient to make
the adhyAsa itself located in the mind.

Kind regards,
Venkatraghavan



On Tue, 26 Dec 2023, 01:42 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:

> praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
>
> Hare Krishna
>
>
> The snake in the rope snake adhyAsa is not imagined "in the mind". Rather
> the adhyAsa takes place in the locus outside, which leads to the
> experience, "I see a snake *there *(e.g. in the passageway)". The locus
> is not the seer's mind, but the location of the rope.
>
>
>
> Ø     I don’t know the context in which you are saying snake is not
> imagined in the mind.  But bhAshyakAra clearly says the sarpa is ‘buddhi
> parikalpita’ ( just one example in chAdOgya : rajjvAdi sarpAdyAkAreNa
> ‘buddhiparikalpitena’)!!  The rajju-sarpa example has been given to drive
> home the point that there is no sarpa in rajju and sarpaavayava are mere
> imagination.  OTOH, brahman (rope) is transactionless as someone else is
> the nimitta to ‘see’ the sarpa in vyavahArarahita rajju.  And as a result,
> when the rajju is examined properly we conclude that though it appeared
> like a snake ( at the time of congnition during the abhAva of rajju jnana)
> it was not a snake it was / is  rajju only.  We never ever think in our
> sublated (bAdhita) jnana that there was sarpa outside apart from our mental
> imagination.
>
>
>
>    - IMO saying locus is outside for the adhyAsa is clear cut definition
>    of arthAdhyAsa which is NOT the result of jnAnAdhyAsa and these two are
>    mutually exclusive.  Anyway, will wait for your further elaboration.
>
>
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>
> bhaskar
>
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