kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 12 09:05:27 EDT 2020
Just a note. VishiShTaadvaita does not believe eternal hell and also subscribes to the Brahman is both nimitta and upaadana kaarana. They subsribe to Sharanagati and use Sarva dharmaan sloka and subscribe to surrender to Lord Vishnu or his avataras alone is the path for moksha based on the sloka -daiveem esha guna mayi mama maayaa duratyayaa - maam evaye prapadyante maayaam etaam taranti te. maam eva is emphasized.
Moksha, of course, is going to Vaikunta and serving the Lord there along with other bhaktas, and enjoying infinite happiness by being with the Lord.
On Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 05:42:55 PM GMT+5:30, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
Namaste Praveen ji
On Wed, 12 Aug, 2020, 9:55 AM Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Namaste Raghavji,
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 8:02 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > So eternal hell is an illogical
> > idea - or one might put it this way ; *eternal* hell is not a damned good
> > idea!!
> Further, here is another reason why eternal hell interpretation to those
> non-Vishnu bhaktas by Dvaitins is a logical failure: Imagine that a jIva
> was indeed thrown into eternal hell. What is the reason he wasn't in hell
> before? Because he was definitely not a non-Vishnu bhakta; meaning he was a
> Vishnu-bhakta. Why was he born at all in that case? Shouldn't he have been
> liberated already then?! At the very least it should be agreed that
> Vishnu-bhaktas will be born again.
That's a really valid point. Most theologies like Islam bypass that problem
the only way they can viz., by rejecting any purva janmas (past births).
Even dvaitins effectively are rejecting purva-janma if they say that all
non-vaiShNavas go to hell.
Otherwise, as you pointed out, the fact that they (human beings alive) have
been born in bhU loka (this world) implies that they must necessarily have
been viShNu bhaktas in their last life ( because otherwise they should have
landed in eternal hell.)
If that is accepted, the dvaitins can to some retrieve the situation to
some extent and counter that and say that in the last life their viShNu
bhakti was flawed or insufficient so they are reborn in bhU loka. But that
too is untenable.
Because that does not explain the fate of billions of human beings
(presumably viShnu bhaktis in their last life) born in distant lands in say
the Abrahamic faiths with no idea or exposure to vaiShNavism or as Maoris
in New Zealand etc. They innocently lived their faith of their birth in
their land of birth and died and then presumably went to eternal hell
because this time they did not touch base with ISKCON or some other similar
theology. The implications of 'eternal hell' are quite logically absurd and
un-vedic since eternal hill implies either
1. rejection of purva-janma or
2. A 'spiritual journey' whereby a viShNu bhakta (with insufficient bhakti
is reborn in the American Mid-West and so not much exposure to other
traditions and so he lives and dies a pious Christian) goes to hell.
Either way dvaita eternal hell eschatology lands one in the soup of
> All systems that take no effort to avoid contradiction with other shrutis
> have this flaw. Advaita Vedanta seems to be the only one that has ShaDliMga
> analysis for tAtparyanishchaya and therefore, everything fits in line
> without any contradiction.
> Dvaitins consider interpreting individual
> statements on overall tAtparya and arriving at the overall tAtparya by
> interpreting individual statements as having anyonyAshrayadoSha!
Is the accusation of anyonyAshraya doSha leveled by dvaita against Advaita?
Could you please elaborate on whether it's wrong to interpret individual
mantras from an overall advaitic vision (by the Acharya's) and also teach
the overall tAtparya to students by sequentially teaching individual
mantras to arrive at a coherent and self-consistent advaita darshana? The
anyonyAshraya doSha is avoided, as I understand, because the first (top
down method) is by an sAmpradAyavit acharya while the second bottom up
process is what happens in the students mental/spiritual journey when
taught by a sAmpradAyavit.
The existence of the Advaita Guru paraMparA rules out anyonyAshraya doSha
in the process of shruti tAtparya nischaya - is my understanding.
> --Praveen R. Bhat
> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know
> That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
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