[Advaita-l] 'world' is not the mental creation of tiny soul !!
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 29 00:04:46 CDT 2014
On Fri, 3/28/14, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com wrote:
> The waker's mind with its suppressions and oppressions become a platform for the projection of the whole dream world. Hence when you say YOU - if it refers to the waker's mind then the whole projection is within that mind. In analogy with the waking world, these impressions form maaya and waker's mind enlivened by the consciousness is the Iswara of the creation.Hence similar to the waking world Iswara with maaya Shakti is creating the dream world.
Dear Sri Sada ji,
The above highlighted part is not in accordance with the Br.up. 'There (in the dream) are no chariots, no horses, no paths, etc.. He creates the chariots, the horses, paths, etc.' Shankaracharya comments that this creation of/in the dream is by the jiva. In the BSB 3.2.5 Shankara refutes the position that 'the creator (of dream) is the Supreme Conscious Self (Ishwara)'. [see p.593 bottom of the English trans. of Sw.Gambhirananda.)On Fri, 3/28/14, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
Subbuji – PraNAms
I agree with what posted above. I have truncated the message.
Please examine the statements I made in my post. It is possible with my writing skills the message did not come out clearly.
For dream creation, I was not mentioning about the Iswara of the waking world. The dream world is a parallel human experience which the scriptures use to establish the unreality of the waking world. There is jiiva-jagat-Iswara for the waking world; and there is jiiva-jagat-Iswara for the dream world which appears to be different from that of the waking world.
Waker does not know that he is sat chit ananda swaruupa due to aavaraNa Shakti of avidya/maaya. Therefore the waker thinks his world is real and the other jiivas and the rest of jagat are real. Scriptures teache him that there is an Iswara for the walking world. On the other hand, he as a waker thinks that dream world is not real, since it gets sublimated when he is awake, while he thinks the waking world is real, instead. To him only there is this teaching that both worlds are not real. There are no Iswaras for both worlds - It is just aatma- and mithyaa anaatma.
Similarly the dreamer does not know that he is a waker, and that there is a waking word; due to aavaraNa Shakti of nidraa. The dreamer thinks only his world is real, just like the waker about his world. The dreamer thinks the world that he is experiencing is different from him, and that he is a tiny jiiva being persecuted by the infinite world of objects that he cognizes, which include the forest and the tigers and all other beings in that world of plurality. If a Vedanta class is held there for the beginner students – they will be told that this whole creation is by Iswara of that world (dream world) and that involves muula avidya which has covered the real status of the dreamer and projecting the whole dream world. We can use instead of dreamer – waker in that dream world, since for dreamer the dream is not a dream while in dream. His Iswara is sum total of all vasaanas of all jiivas in that world –the kaaraNa of that dream– that includes the
tigers and other spectators, if there any, the plants and other animals which as though experiencing their own vaasanaas. The system is exactly parallel.
Who is that Iswara of the dream world? It is the waker’s consciousness (chidaabhaasa) with all the impressions in the mind – hence the Br. Up bhaashhya statement applies. He creates the chariots, the horses, paths,etc. – who is He – he is the Iswara of the creation, who is nothing but the waker who is sleeping and dreaming, and the horses and chariots, etc are his impressions or (vaasanaas) which form the basis for the creation of his dream world. That mind that creates the dream world is not just the mind of the tiny subject inside the dream, but it pervades the whole creation – the horses, the chariots, the drivers, the roads, the spectators – all the nine-yards.
The point I was making is that the each of the beings in the dream have his own BMIs and each BMI is different from one another. Their minds are different for each. The waker’s mind as part of dream-world Iswara pervades the whole creation including the dream BMIs that it has created. As long as dream BMI is there, the perception of the dream world of plurality is there. If, for argument sake, the dreamer subject realizes that the whole dream is nothing but his own projection – his being he is now identifying with the total mind and total creation of that dream world, and its substantive, then he can remain as jnaani of the dream and he can do now – aatma – anaatma vichaara in that dream.
The problem of the dream world is the viveka required to recognize the falsity of the dream world, while in the dream, cannot be there since if it is there, the waker will not be dreaming. The Iswara of the dream world is also sarvajna, sarva shaktiman, etc, since he is able to create the horses, chariots and the paths at his will, as you mentioned, along with the drivers and passengers, the spectators, etc., and he can sustain them as long as the dream lasts, and even can annihilate them in the dream and create now ones. Since He is the Iswara of that world of plurality.
Hence when I said Iswara of the dream – I am not equating the two Iswaras – the waking world Iswara and dream world Iswara. For dreamer there is no waking world. The two worlds are parallel and there is no disagreement with what is said in the Bhashya. The parallelism is evident in the sloka – vishvam darpaNa dRisyamaana nagarI tulyam nijaantargatAm, pasyan aatmani maayaa…
Hope my statement are now more clear!
I just now discussed with Swami Paramarthanandaji after today’s vichaarasaagara class, about the Eka jiiva vaada. I will post what I have learned from him, with the change in title, since it is pertinent to both lists
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