[Advaita-l] Advaita Vedanta & Liberatio
rkmurthy at gmail.com
Fri Jun 15 06:30:24 CDT 2007
Dear Sri Krunal Makwana:
Here is an attempt to provide simple answers to your questions:
jIvanmukti is quite central to advaita-vedAnta. It is not that the
world disappears for the mukta. If it were so, then no mukta would be
able to teach others or interact with his environment. Rather, the
mukta **knows** that the various objects of the universe are not real
in their own right. More importantly, the mukta has no sense of
individuality (ego). The world and the individual mukta are not real
in their own right but real as brahman.
IMO, the best analogy to understand advaita is that of waves on water.
Imagine for a moment that you are a wave. You look around and see
other waves all around. You think that you are a wave and that there
are many waves apart from you. There are big waves and small waves.
New waves are continuously being born and old waves keep dying.You see
change (dynamism) all around.
A wise wave next to you tells you that you are not a wave, but water.
You go into introspection mode and realize that you have no reality
apart from water. Indeed it is only water that appears as waves. Thus
there is a drastic shift in perspective (enlightenment). Instead of
thinking of yourself as an individual wave subject to birth & death,
you realize that you are water, which always stays as it is. But this
realization does not impact your physical existence as an individual
wave. You remain a wave as before, and there are many waves around
you, many of whom would still be under the notion that they are
individual waves. But you are no longer bothered by birth & death
because you have ceased to identify yourself as an individual wave,
though other waves will still perceive you as one.
The perspective of the individual wave is the vyavahAra perspective.
The perspective of the substrate water is the paramArtha perspective.
>From the paramArtha perspective, there is no change. Water always
remains as water, there being no birth or death. There is also no
avidyA and no mukti, as the water just stays as it is. This is the
ajAtivAda position that gauDapAdAcArya teaches in his kArikA-s
>From the vyavahAra perspective, there is change and individuality, and
birth & death. Therefore, realization or enlightenment also occurs in
vyavahAra only. And since there is individuality in vyavahAra, the
realization also occurs at the level of the individual only. Hence the
world continues as before!
Please think about the analogy carefully, and I am sure most of your
doubts will be resolved
On 15/06/07, Krunal Makwana <krunalmakwana at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Point 1.
> When Mr X realises himself as Brahman and all traits of avidya have disappeared, the world disappears for him (i know there are different opinions on this e.g. jivan mukta, videha mukta etc, but i don't want to go into that.), but then why does the world still carry on without him, is the world still real?
> Example: Without a question of a doubt, BhagavatpAda was a truely realised preceptor, but when he realised himself as brahman, he became brahman but then why do WE (all jivas) keep living? Does this then mean that even BhagavatpAda was also an illusion in our mind? hence nothing can be real, until I realise brahman.
> Point 2.
> We keep talking about realised personalities but does that mean, they are realised and we are not, hence making the world unreal for them but real for us? So when i realised myself as brahman (which i doubt will happen in the near future, lol), does that mean, that my mother, my brothers will keep living until 'they' realise brahman?
> I know the answer to this would then be, that you have now realised brahman and become brahman and the world vanishes and you know everything was mithyA and the only sat was brahman, which you realise as your true nature, BUT still why does the world still carry on?
> We have religious giants such as BhagavatpAda, rAmakR^iShNa paramhaMsa, swAmi vivekAnanda etc, if they were realised, why is this world still carrying on?
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