ramkisno at HOTMAIL.COM
Sun May 5 12:27:14 CDT 2002
On Sun, 5 May 2002 00:37:52 -0400, Shrinivas Gadkari
<sgadkari2001 at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>On Sat, 4 May 2002 20:19:15 -0400, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM>
>>> A: "Who controls the dream ?".
>>> B: Ishvara is the controller.
>>> B: So I control the dream when I am in the state of Ishvara. And
>>> experience it when I am in the state of Jiva. And keep jumping
>>> states all the time.
>>What good then is mukti? The whole point of it is that it is final. But
>>if this view is accepted then even if by arduous effort we manage to
>>attain mukti, it could suddenly be yanked away from us again by a jump of
>>state. Perhaps we don't mind. Perhaps we delight in both the unmanifest
>>and manifest states. Then why do we need any sadhana at all? It would be
>>sufficient to just wait around and the changes would just happen by
>B: The concept of mukti is from the view point of the Jiva.
>Sadhana is targetted to relieve the Jiva from suffering. The
>whole purpose of creation was fun. Lack of correct knowledge
>makes Jiva suffer, hence sadhana. Everything that I am saying
>are standard statements nothing new. Only stressing the fun
>part of the game.
>By not doing anything the suffering of the Jiva will not go
I guess I am confused now about the position of mukti, and what it is, in
Kashmir Shaivism. If there be a *real* transformation of Shiva into this
world, then what is the guarantee that a liberated jiva will not become
Dreaming occurs in the mind and that is where we negate it once we wake up.
The mind becomes the cars and castles but we know it to be not true on
waking up. Once a jiva obtains mukti, it becomes aware of its real nature
and the universe of objects and subjects then is dismissed as a
superimposition on Brahman. Is it then the position of KS that once the
jiva realizes its Shiva nature, it *knows* the transformation to be a real
state but is not affected by it? Then Jaldhar's point of why Shiva creates
a universe in the first place becomes valid. Why does a perfect being need
to entertain itself?
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