krama mukti

Aravind Krishna seeksha at HOTMAIL.COM
Sun Sep 26 22:18:15 CDT 1999

> >* Has Shankara explicitly differentiated and said that a saguNopAsakA
> >not get to the same state as a nirguNopAsakA ?.
>Last section of brahmasUtra bhAshya. The saguNopAsaka is said to go to
>brahmaloka, where they are said to stay till pralaya - te brahmaloke tu
>parAntakAle parAmRtAt parimucyanti sarve. For one who knows nirguNa brahman
>as the essential brahman, there is no going anywhere - na tasya prANA
>That is how the following quotation makes sense.
> >* Does not the last section of the  Brahmasutra bhashya say that through
> >saguNa worship one gets in to eternal bliss.
> >
> >"samyagdarSana vidhvasta-tamasAm tu
> >nityasiddhanirvANa  parAyaNAnAm siddhaiva anAvRtti:|
> >tadASrayaNenaiva hi saguNaSaraNAnAmapi anAvRttissiddhiriti|"
>Note the words tad ASraya - the goal of saguNopAsana is dependent upon the
>essential reality of Brahman as nirguNa.
> >* If in case nirguNopasaNa does not lead to the same state as saguNa
> >then why vigorous defendants of advaita like Madhusudana sarasvati,
> >sarasvathi and others were saguNopAsakAs.
>There is no contradiction in it, is there? It is not as there is one
>that is saguNa and another, different Brahman that is nirguNa. Rather, the
>nirguNa is the innermost, the essential core of what is considered saguNa.
> >
> >* Does not even simple phrases like "harih aum" - Hari is Aum, waves away
> >the discrepancies between saguNa & nirguNa . When  "sarvam khalvidam
> >then where comes  the question of superior and inferior reality ?.
>The issue is one of knowing and grasping Brahman in the essential nature,
>opposed to describing Brahman through limiting adjuncts.
> >
> >* Doesn?t Shankara again and again say in several verses that ISvara  is
> >different from the nirguNa Brahma. Then why comes a distinction between
> >fruit of  saguNa or nirguNa upAsaNa?.
>The distinction lies in the guNas. ISvara is beyond the guNas, but the
>mind has a great difficulty in understanding this.
> >
> >* When there is no difference between ISvara and Brahman and when it is
> >"brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati" - He who knows brahman becomes brahman
> >how does a discrepancy come in?.
> >
> >     nirguNam apisadbrahma nAmarUpagatiguNaih  |
> >     saguNam upAsanArtham tatra tatra  upadishyate ||
> >
> >     Although Brahman is Nirguna, yet for upAsanA the SaguNa Brahman
> >with qualities like name,form, etc, is taught.
>Because of the above mentioned difficulty in understanding nirguNa brahma.
>The goal of upAsana is to understand the guNas and to go beyond them, to
>know ISvara in essence and in entirety.
> >
> >
> >* What does phrases that uplift devotion really mean ?. Does not
> >Vivekacudamani say
> >
> >     mokShakAraNasAmagryAm bhaktireva garIyasI    |
> >     svasvarUpAnusandhAnam bhaktirityabhidhIyate  ||
> >
> >      Among all paths to liberation devotion or Bakthi is the best.
> >      Striving to know one's true nature is termed Bhakti.
>Note the definition of Bhakti here is something different from what the
>average (wo)man considers as Bhakti.
> >* Above all, if in case contemplation on nirguNa  is considered superior
> >then why did people allways immersed in the experience of nirguNa Brahman
> >like Shuka Acharya derive great transcendental pleasure in narrating
> >Bhagavatam which is full of glories of the saguNa.
>Strictly speaking, there can be no contemplation on the nirguNa, as the
>nirguNa is a state of being, not a state of becoming or of experiencing.
>there is nothing contradictory in the saguNa leading to the nirguNa.
> >
> >
> >       evam prasannamanaso bhagavadbhaktiyogatah   |
> >       bhagavattattvaviJnAnam muktasangasya jAyate ||
> >
> >       The person, who has thus obtained happiness by means of devotion
> >the almighty and who is free from all attachments, will directly gets in
> >the true nature.
> >   ( There is no intermediate specified )
>kiM jAyate? bhagavat-tattva-vijnAnam. atra tu bhaktiyoga-mArgasya jnAne
>avasAnam uktam. tataH jnAnasyaiva paramatvam adhigamyate, na vA? taj jnAnam
>eva nirguNa brahma.

Thanks for clarifying things.

My base objective for such questions to qualified people is due to the fact
that most people in the clan of Vedanta, think that bakthi is some thing
that is prescribed for people of lower caliber. They come with a hand full
of references and say that ’ saguna upasana is just like studying ABCD , How
long will you study that ?., its for kids’.
Practically we seldom see a person neglecting bakthi getting qualities like
discrimination, dispassion, kindred virtue or a titanic longing for
liberation. Actually all these qualifications are attained through bakthi in
course of time with ease with out even striving hard for it.

bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam

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