vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM
Sat Sep 25 17:41:42 CDT 1999
Aravind Krishna <seeksha at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>* Has Shankara explicitly differentiated and said that a saguNopAsakA does
>not get to the same state as a nirguNopAsakA ?.
Last section of brahmasUtra bhAshya. The saguNopAsaka is said to go to
brahmaloka, where they are said to stay till pralaya - te brahmaloke tu
parAntakAle parAmRtAt parimucyanti sarve. For one who knows nirguNa brahman
as the essential brahman, there is no going anywhere - na tasya prANA
That is how the following quotation makes sense.
>* Does not the last section of the Brahmasutra bhashya say that through
>saguNa worship one gets in to eternal bliss.
>"samyagdarSana vidhvasta-tamasAm tu
>nityasiddhanirvANa parAyaNAnAm siddhaiva anAvRtti:|
>tadASrayaNenaiva hi saguNaSaraNAnAmapi anAvRttissiddhiriti|"
Note the words tad ASraya - the goal of saguNopAsana is dependent upon the
essential reality of Brahman as nirguNa.
>* If in case nirguNopasaNa does not lead to the same state as saguNa does,
>then why vigorous defendants of advaita like Madhusudana sarasvati,
>sarasvathi and others were saguNopAsakAs.
There is no contradiction in it, is there? It is not as there is one Brahman
that is saguNa and another, different Brahman that is nirguNa. Rather, the
nirguNa is the innermost, the essential core of what is considered saguNa.
>* Does not even simple phrases like "harih aum" - Hari is Aum, waves away
>the discrepancies between saguNa & nirguNa . When "sarvam khalvidam
>then where comes the question of superior and inferior reality ?.
The issue is one of knowing and grasping Brahman in the essential nature, as
opposed to describing Brahman through limiting adjuncts.
>* Doesn?t Shankara again and again say in several verses that ISvara is
>different from the nirguNa Brahma. Then why comes a distinction between the
>fruit of saguNa or nirguNa upAsaNa?.
The distinction lies in the guNas. ISvara is beyond the guNas, but the human
mind has a great difficulty in understanding this.
>* When there is no difference between ISvara and Brahman and when it is
>"brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati" - He who knows brahman becomes brahman
>how does a discrepancy come in?.
> nirguNam apisadbrahma nAmarUpagatiguNaih |
> saguNam upAsanArtham tatra tatra upadishyate ||
> Although Brahman is Nirguna, yet for upAsanA the SaguNa Brahman
>with qualities like name,form, etc, is taught.
Because of the above mentioned difficulty in understanding nirguNa brahma.
The goal of upAsana is to understand the guNas and to go beyond them, to
know ISvara in essence and in entirety.
>* What does phrases that uplift devotion really mean ?. Does not Shankara?s
> mokShakAraNasAmagryAm bhaktireva garIyasI |
> svasvarUpAnusandhAnam bhaktirityabhidhIyate ||
> Among all paths to liberation devotion or Bakthi is the best.
> Striving to know one's true nature is termed Bhakti.
Note the definition of Bhakti here is something different from what the
average (wo)man considers as Bhakti.
>* Above all, if in case contemplation on nirguNa is considered superior
>then why did people allways immersed in the experience of nirguNa Brahman
>like Shuka Acharya derive great transcendental pleasure in narrating
>Bhagavatam which is full of glories of the saguNa.
Strictly speaking, there can be no contemplation on the nirguNa, as the
nirguNa is a state of being, not a state of becoming or of experiencing. But
there is nothing contradictory in the saguNa leading to the nirguNa.
> evam prasannamanaso bhagavadbhaktiyogatah |
> bhagavattattvaviJnAnam muktasangasya jAyate ||
> The person, who has thus obtained happiness by means of devotion to
>the almighty and who is free from all attachments, will directly gets in to
>the true nature.
> ( There is no intermediate specified )
kiM jAyate? bhagavat-tattva-vijnAnam. atra tu bhaktiyoga-mArgasya jnAne
avasAnam uktam. tataH jnAnasyaiva paramatvam adhigamyate, na vA? taj jnAnam
eva nirguNa brahma.
bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam
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