krama mukti

Aravind Krishna seeksha at HOTMAIL.COM
Thu Sep 23 16:23:04 CDT 1999

                        ** harih aum ***
Sri Venkataraman wrote,

>C.   Meditation on nirguNa brahman can lead to the lifting of the Veil
>of maaya resulting in jiva realising its identity with brahman.  This
>is mukti --- sadyo mukti --- immediate liberation.  Such mukti even
>when the jiva is still tenanting the gross body is called jiivanmukti
>-- meaning mukti while still alive.
>Susequently when the gross body of the jivanmukta dies, the jiva
>attains videha mukti...the jiva drops the subtle body also and does
>not re-enter the cycle of samsaara.
>D.    Upaasana  of saguNa brahman can also ultimately lead to mukti,
>but not directly or immediately.    When the gross body dies, the >jiva
>along with the subtle body is led to brahmaloka (the loka of >brahmaa not
>brahman) along  the deva-marga (path of light).  Its >sense of duality
>It enjoys its proximity with saguNa brahman, which
>is now called kaarya brahman, hiraNyagarbha, prajaapati, etc.  It can
>do so  without acquiring another gross body, with only its subtle
>body(mind).  The jiva who has gone to brahmaloka DOES NOT have to
>reenter samsara.   This anavr'tti (no need to return) is considered a
>step towards final mukti.  So it is termed krama mukti --- meaning
>gradual mukti or mukti in stages.

I request him and other list members to throw some more light on this and
answer some of my ignorant questions.I hope these does not offend any one.

(I know his statements have strong base and I too have read them in the
concluding part of Maha Narayana UP and other places)

* Has Shankara explicitly differentiated and said that a saguNopAsakA does
not get to the same state as a nirguNopAsakA ?.

* Does not the last section of the  Brahmasutra bhashya say that through
saguNa worship one gets in to eternal bliss.

"samyagdarSana vidhvasta-tamasAm tu
nityasiddhanirvANa  parAyaNAnAm siddhaiva anAvRtti:|
tadASrayaNenaiva hi saguNaSaraNAnAmapi anAvRttissiddhiriti|"

* If in case nirguNopasaNa does not lead to the same state as saguNa does,
then why vigorous defendants of advaita like Madhusudana sarasvati, BOdAndra
sarasvathi and others were saguNopAsakAs.

* Does not even simple phrases like "harih aum" - Hari is Aum, waves away
the discrepancies between saguNa & nirguNa . When  "sarvam khalvidam brahma"
then where comes  the question of superior and inferior reality ?.

* Doesn’t Shankara again and again say in several verses that ISvara  is not
different from the nirguNa Brahma. Then why comes a distinction between the
fruit of  saguNa or nirguNa upAsaNa?.

* When there is no difference between ISvara and Brahman and when it is said
"brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati" - He who knows brahman becomes brahman Itself,
how does a discrepancy come in?.

     nirguNam apisadbrahma nAmarUpagatiguNaih  |
     saguNam upAsanArtham tatra tatra  upadishyate ||

     Although Brahman is Nirguna, yet for upAsanA the SaguNa Brahman endowed
with qualities like name,form, etc, is taught.

* What does phrases that uplift devotion really mean ?. Does not Shankara’s
Vivekacudamani say

     mokShakAraNasAmagryAm bhaktireva garIyasI    |
     svasvarUpAnusandhAnam bhaktirityabhidhIyate  ||

      Among all paths to liberation devotion or Bakthi is the best.
      Striving to know one's true nature is termed Bhakti.

* Above all, if in case contemplation on nirguNa  is considered superior
then why did people allways immersed in the experience of nirguNa Brahman
like Shuka Acharya derive great transcendental pleasure in narrating
Bhagavatam which is full of glories of the saguNa.

       evam prasannamanaso bhagavadbhaktiyogatah   |
       bhagavattattvaviJnAnam muktasangasya jAyate ||

       The person, who has thus obtained happiness by means of devotion to
the almighty and who is free from all attachments, will directly gets in to
the true nature.
   ( There is no intermediate specified )

                        ** harih aum ***

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