krama mukti

Aravind Krishna seeksha at HOTMAIL.COM
Thu Sep 23 09:29:39 CDT 1999


I just wanted to share some simple views on Sri Ravi’s postings on Karma

Irrespective of any path one may prefer either Raja Yoga or Karma Yoga or
Bakthi Yoga, the qualification that is needed for one to attain mukti is
jnAna. All schools of Vedanta accept this. Only thing in which people differ
is what is mukti  ?. ( i.e. what is the eternal or the true nature of

Now comes the question how does one gets jnAna ?. It may be through
contemplation on 'Who am I' or by Meditation or by self less action or due
to immense devotion and so on.

The important thing is, these Yoga's are not air tight compartments. There
exist perfect harmony between them.

The best proof that I can think of with my little knowledge is from Sri
Bhagavatham, where Saint Naradha narrates his previous birth.

' My mother was a servant in a retreat where great sages lived. I got the
association of holy men. I too served them (Kaimkarya) . While I was thus
serving them, one of the sages initiated me in to the scared mysteries of
wisdom. The veil of ignorance was removed from me, and I knew my real self
as divine (JnAna ). I learned that great remedy of all ills of life is to
surrender the fruits of Karmas to Lord (Karma Yoga). When the fruit that
puts us in to bondage is offered to the almighty, we become free of its
effects. Work we perform with love and devotion in turn brings wisdom in
us(Bakthi Yoga). With wisdom we are liberated. (JnAna Yoga)'

The above passage reveals the perfect harmony of all the Yogas.

There is a vivid difference between the Karma performed by a Karma Yogi and
a dry Karmanushta para (Say a Poorva Meemamsaka) . Though the same action is
being performed by both, the former gets chitta shudhi by self less action
and gets jnAna , but the later as a result of performing it as it is a
Vihitha Karma gets the needed fruit and Punya due to which the jeevan stays
in a diviya loka for some time and once his balance becomes nil comes back
to earth.

The crux of vedanta is to get rid of avidya (ignorance) and get bliss in the
eternal which is ones true nature, but the almighty alone stands as both a
witness as well as the self and Jeevan can not.

“ maayaaviiva vijR^imbhayatyapi mahaayogiiva yaH svechchhayaa”

He alone can stands both as a maayavi as well as a yogi.

Regarding Vaikunta,

Even in Shri Vaishnava traditions Vaikunta is not considered to be a place
but a state.  Sri Vedantha Desikar has done rahasya works explaining those.

Ksheerapthi or parkadal is where vijaya and jaya exist. Though normally the
word Vaikunta is used to denote a place, it only means Ksheerapthi in actual

If we say Shiva pada is Kailash that exist in Himalayas,then that would get
destroyed in pralaya.
The ultimate state of one in any Vedantic school is not considered to be
bound by time or space.

Regarding kaimkaryam,

Almighty does not need the service what we offer, but a devote needs
service for the sake of service and nothing else. Paramathma is not a
merchant for us to trade, giving some thing and getting some thing in
return. He is an ocean of compassion with rolling waves of mercy. His
compassion towards us is boundless.

Then why does one needs to perform kaimkarya ?.

“ Panduranga was with JanaBai for all night singing and writing down all her
abang’s and when it was 5’0 clock she stood up and said, ‘I have to go to
clean the front, Panduranga was astonished and asked her, ‘The fruit of all
service is me and you have that, then what is the need for you to serve?’,
She said ‘would I restrain from the act that was the cause for you to be
here !‘.”

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>From  Thu Sep 23 23:24:31 1999
Message-Id: <THU.23.SEP.1999.232431.0800.>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:24:31 +0800
Reply-To: venkataraman at
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: Venkataraman <venkataraman at PACIFIC.NET.SG>
Organization: Venkataraman
Subject: Re: krama mukti
Comments: To: Ravi <msr at COMCO.COM>
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  sadaasiva samaarambhaam Samkaraacaarya madhyamaam  |
  asmadaacarya paryantaam vande guru paramparaam    ||

A.   In the paaramaarthika plane, jiva and brahman (as well as the
jagat) ARE one and the same.  There is no question of jiva BECOMING
brahman because it is already brahman.

B.   However, on the vyaavahaarika plane,
   (i) the aavaraNa Sakti of maaya hides this knowledge from jiva;
  (ii) the vikshepa Sakti of maaya leads to perception of duality in
the jagat.
 (iii) Even brahman which is nirguNa takes on a saguNa aspect,
creating a sense of        difference between jiva and Isvara.

C.   Meditation on nirguNa brahman can lead to the lifting of the veil
of maaya resulting in jiva realising its identity with brahman.  This
is mukti --- sadyo mukti --- immediate liberation.  Such mukti even
when the jiva is still tenanting the gross body is called jiivanmukti
-- meaning mukti while still alive.
Susequently when the gross body of the jivanmukta dies, the jiva
attains videha mukti...the jiva drops the subtle body also and does
not re-enter the cycle of samsaara.

D.    Upaasana  of saguNa brahman can also ultimately lead to mukti,
but not directly or immediately.    When the gross body dies, the jiva
along with the subtle body is led to brahmaloka (the loka of brahmaa
not brahman) along  the deva-marga (path of light).  Its sense of
duality continues.  It enjoys its proximity with saguNa brahman, which
is now called kaarya brahman, hiraNyagarbha, prajaapati, etc.  It can
do so  without acquiring another gross body, with only its subtle
body(mind).  The jiva who has gone to brahmaloka DOES NOT have to
reenter samsara.   This anavr'tti (no need to return) is considered a
step towards final mukti.  So it is termed krama mukti --- meaning
gradual mukti or mukti in stages.

E.    The jiiva continues in brahmaloka till the end of the period of
rulership of Brahmaa.  At the time of pralayaa, all of them including
the jivas, and Brahmaa all merge in the nirguNa brahman.  Remember
that they are all under the spell of maaya (and hence duality) till

F.    It is noteworthy that unlike in  brahmaloka,the sojorn of a jiva
in svarga loka  is limited by its bank balance in its karma account.
The path to svarga loka is called the dark path.  The attainment of
svarga is a karma phala whereas brahmaloka is attained  by upaasanaa
of saguNa brahman and by His grace.

G.   To recapitulate:

When the gross body dies, there are four possible paths in which the
jiva (including the subtle body) may travel.

1.  In the case of a jivan-mukta, the jiva which has already shed its
false sense of duality, drops the subtle body also, attains videha
mukti, continues eternal  identity with brahman ,   and does not
re-enter samsaara.

2.  In the case of krama mukti, the jiva goes to brahmaloka, retains
its subtle body to enjoy the sojourn there till the time of pralaya,
continues the sense of duality,  but does not re-enter samsaara.

3.  In case it has earned a ticket to svarga by its karmaphala, it
goes there, but returns to samsaara on expiry of the tenure in
svarga.  While in svargs, it cannot earn any brownie points to attain
mukti, which is possible only in a human birth.

4.   In all other cases the jiva has to re-enter samsaara
immediately.  It may be re-born in many variegated yoni-s according to
its karmaphala till it again gets born as a human being and strives to
attain mukti.

H.       This is what little I think  I have understood.  There may be
errors in my understanding.  I shall be grateful if I am corrected.

---  V.M.Sundaram <venkataraman at>

Ravi wrote:
> I would like those who know more about krama mukti comment on
> this.
> In advaita-vedAnta, mukti or liberation is through jnAna. That is
> a first hand knowldge of brahmAnubhava, for that is the only way
> to know brahman and that knowledge results in becoming brahman
> (brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati).
> In krama mukti it is said that the jIva goes to brahma loka and
> eventually attain release there. Even in that state it must be
> through jnAna only. Even in that loka, torments of duality should
> persists and jiiva is still embodied in one form or other? May be
> it is easier to attain knowledge in such higher loka-s as one may
> be more advanced. On the other hand, it may be difficult there
> due to the absence suffering which prompts one to think deeply
> (as it is in this world).
> Besides that it cannot be argued that one attains release after
> 100 years of brahma during the end of that cosmic cycle,
> vivekachuDamaniH (verse 6? vadantu shaastrAni ..) states this. If
> it is so how different it is from the shrIvaishNava concept
> anyway?
> Is that loka guarantee a state of non-return to this loka as some
> being (plant, animal, or human)? How does one go there (to brahma
> loka)? By karma phalan? if so what happens after it is exhausted?
> I don't think even vaikunta is a loka of non-return, a glaring
> example of vijaya and jaya (who guard the entrance) were kicked
> out because of their ahankaram (that still exists there) and came
> here as asura-s for three times in row to expiate for that.
> Purana-s have many incidents of curses were even their shakti-s
> of mumurti-s were sent to earth. One can give any good
> rationalizing argument or dump of all the singularity in a single
> term "leela", but what good does it do?
> I think state of duality, whether here or anywhere is a state of
> misery and one has to obtain release from this bondage of
> ignorance. I do not know, when I think about it now, krama mukti
> does not sound like a mukti (till the actual mukti happens)
>  Ultimately, the release is in form of jivana mukti in one way or
> other.
> That is why, in advaita-vedanta when we worship any devata, we
> worship them as brahman in essence and one has to attain it by
> getting rid of the ignorance. The underlying mood is always,
> "AsAvadityo brahma, brahmaiva satyam, brahmaivAhamasi". (in which
> veda does this occur? , is it a simplfied for Asavadityo
> brahmeti, brahmaiva san, brahmvaapyeti ya evam veda). We have
> more opportunity to do kaimkaryam to bhagavan(if he really needs
> it) here than in any other loka, and we will better of doing it
> here rather than longing to go a particular loka.
> Please do correct me.
> Ravi
> --
> bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam
> Archives :
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