sadananda sada at ANVIL.NRL.NAVY.MIL
Wed May 20 07:45:24 CDT 1998

Sri Gummaluri Murthy wrote:
>But, in the sahaja state (I take it that you mean by sahaja state, our
>natural state where we are not covered by mAyA but are the Atman in our
>natural glow), does the mind exist ?

Please note that in that state nothing other than I exit(s). So this
question becomes irrelevant.  If one comes down a step below - iswara state
- then you will also declare that everything exists in me. Then everything
becomes my vibhuuti - or leela or sport - you can repeat the whole of 9 th
and 10th chapters of B.G..
        mayaatata midam sarvam jagadavyaakta muurtinaa|
        mastaani sarva bhutaani na chaaham teshwavastitaH|
        nachamastaani bhuutaani pasyamme yogomaiswaram| Ch. 9

I pervade this entire universe in an unmanifested form. All beings are in
me but I am not in them in the sense that their individual misconceptions
do not belong to me. For those who question further if the individual minds
are that of iswara etc., Krishna reassures that it is indeed his iswaryam
or Glory that he can exist as many, but remain as one without identifying
that I am one of them.  Just as Gold declaring I pervade this entire gold
armaments in an formless form, all are in me but I am not in them in the
sense I have no misconceptions that I am only a ring or necklace etc.

Thus there are three degrees of understandings.

In the pure nirguna state - I alone am - there is nothing other than me.

In the Saguna state - I am iswara - mayaadhyakshena prakRiti suuyate
sacharaacharm - Under my adhyaksha or presidency everything is projected,
the movable and immovable - This prakRiti is my maaya - mayantu prakRitim
vidyaat -  and I am the wielder of this maaya.

In the jeeva state - I identify with the individual body, mind, intellect
as I am them.

The second and third,  Iswara and Jeeva are interconnected since it is the
Jeeva's notion that there is a creation and there is a creator, iswara, who
can even comedown and teach us B.G. and there is a shastra as a pramaana
etc., etc.

Bhagawaan Ramana puts this beautifully in Upadesha saara:

        isha jeevayoH veshadhiibidaa
        satvabhavato vastu kevalam|

In terms of the external costume, vesha, and in term of individual notions
there is a difference between the jeeva and iswara. Vesha is that makes one
look different from what one is. One is alpaJNa and the other is sarvaJNa.
One is alpashaktimaan and the other is sarvashaktimaan.  But interms of the
nature of existence, their essence is one and the same.

>And, even if it exists,
>what burden could it be, or what obstacles or mischief can it produce,
>or what expenditure of "energy" is there to overcome ? In the sahaja
>state, I am nirguna Brahman, and I pervade all and I know it. In that
>state, what botheration can the mind be ?

As noted above in that state, there is nothing other than me.  ekamevaa
adviteeyam - one without a second - One gold plus many ornaments is still
one gold - gold identifying I am Au then there is nothing other than Au
that pervades everywhere.  Once its sees many ornaments, it will say that
they are in me,and they are all my iswaryam or glory, I can become many
without loosing my identity. Inspite of many I am still one, Au.

        tad ikshata,  buhusyaam,  prajaayeyeti - It saw and decided to
become many and became many is Ch. Upa.

In the advaitic state (nirguna Brahman) all questions stop - since there is
nothing other than that. Energy and matter come with the creation with
Jeeva and iswara put together.

> What Shri Sadananda says above
>about the mind is with reference to the mAyAvic state of the jeeva

Existence of the mind is only in the maaya state. In pure state there is
only I am. Hence Bhagavaan Ramana statement:
        maanasantukim margane krite
        naivamaanasam marga aarjavat|
        when one inquires in the direction that what is this mind, (where
do the mind arise or thoughts arise)  there is no mind since it is only
apparent and that indeed is the direct path for realization - essentially
analyze the analyst.

Hari Om!

K. Sadananda
Code 6323
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington D.C. 20375
Voice (202)767-2117

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