Gummuluru Murthy gmurthy at MORGAN.UCS.MUN.CA
Wed May 20 06:23:23 CDT 1998

On Tue, 19 May 1998, f. maiello wrote:

> Gummuluru Murthy wrote:
> > Although I see the point that is being made, with which I concur, but
> > why blame the poor "mind" ? It is true that the mind is the originator
> > or conduit for thoughts that go through this body-mind-intellect complex,
> > but they may just as well be good thoughts. Rg veda says "Let noble
> > thoughts come to us from all sides".
> >
> > It is the viveka, that discriminator that lets the single worst thought
> > "desire", however small, to go through. And that, in my view, is the one
> > that runs havoc in this body-mind-intellect complex and hampers whatever
> > chance we have of going beyond the body-mind-intellect and realizing our
> > true Self. My favorite Viveka ChuDAmaNi verse (# 424) says in part
> > "... the culmination of dispassion (vairAgya) is the desirelessness...".
> Yes, good or positive thoughts, such as found in the mahavakyaslike tattvamasi
> and ahambrahmasmi are vital on the path to
> egoic the purification process, establishing
> viveka and subsequent vairagya.  Even gayatrimantram invokes
> positive thoughts.  Not so in the sahaja state.  Here, *any*
> thought thus becomes not only an obstacle/limitation, but an
> unnecessary effort to have or react to.  Nevertheless the lila
> goes on, being the product of the mahamahat of saguna brahman.
> So thoughts may or may not continue.  The point is they can
> no longer manipulate awareness and specifically, in this way,
> create moment-to-moment the mayavic jiva.  This is the result
> of the full engagement of vairagya.  The outcome is clear.
> Sadananda stated in thread "Re: moksha and mumukshutvam"
> earlier today:
> > [...] ............  Obvously from Brahman point there is no
> > question of the desire for liberation.  From Jeeva's point there
> > is, since he thinks he is a jeeva.  The desire is in the mind of
> > jeeva who obviously thinks he is the mind - Notion that I am a
> > Jeeva goes with the notion that I am the mind.  And notions are
> > entertained only in the mind!
> I rest my case.
> (meaning, I rest the case concerning I/me/my! :-)
> namaste.


But, in the sahaja state (I take it that you mean by sahaja state, our
natural state where we are not covered by mAyA but are the Atman in our
natural glow), does the mind exist ? And, even if it exists,
what burden could it be, or what obstacles or mischief can it produce,
or what expenditure of "energy" is there to overcome ? In the sahaja
state, I am nirguna Brahman, and I pervade all and I know it. In that
state, what botheration can the mind be ? What Shri Sadananda says above
about the mind is with reference to the mAyAvic state of the jeeva.

I do not want to belabour the point, because there is no disagreement
really, except a slight difference in emphasis.

If I can put a not too perfect an analogy: let us imagine a truck full
of incriminating evidence is caught. The reaction is: the truck and the
truck driver is the culprit, but the one who instigated the crime (the
mafia that organized the crime) is still at large, and that is the one
we have to catch, not the poor truck. In this analogy, I equate the
truck with incriminating evidence to the mind with the thoughts going
through; the mafia behind the crime to the viveka of the human that
allows the (bad) thoughts to go through; we should look for that real
culprit, our own viveka.

Gummuluru Murthy
Yadaa sarve pramucyante kaamaa ye'sya hr^di shritaah
atha martyo'mr^to bhavatyatra brahma samashnute   Katha Upanishhad II.3.14

When all the desires that dwell in the heart fall away, then the mortal
becomes immortal, and attains Brahman even here.

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