Question about the causal state
goode at DPW.COM
Thu Oct 16 15:32:27 CDT 1997
At 02:52 PM 10/16/97 -0400, sadananda wrote:
>>Where is Swami Chinyayanandaji located?
>He has reached mahaasamadhi in August 1993.
>>Here comes some unorthodox argumentation. This Christian answer you
>>pointed to above is no worse than the answer given by reincarnation.
>>The vasanas and sanchita karma we inherit at birth are not from our
>>own previous life.
>This is not how vedanta explains. At the time of the death, the individual
>i - which consists of identification with the subtle and causal bodies -
>departs leaving the gross body there. The death of an individual or the
>person is the separation of the gross body from the rest of the body.
You've practically proven my point by saying:
>The death of an individual or the
>person is the separation of the gross
>body from the rest of the body.
Person = Particular combination of (gross body) + (other bodies)
Separate these as in your definition, and the person comes to an end.
Say the other bodies migrate into a new life. !Voila! A new person,
since the former gross body is not now present.
(I told you this was unorthodox, I know the orthodox Vedanta story.
Maybe we don't disagree; I'm talking about what a *person* is.).
Vedanta does explain that what transmigrates is the complex of
the subtle and causal bodies. But the person whose vasanas I
now have part of my sanchita karma did not have the same mannamayakosa
or gross body as I do. Therefore it's a different person.
I'm not saying this is scriptural, but it makes sense.
Just think about this -- if there is identification with the body (the
famous "I am the body" idea), then that person will not admit that they
are/were anyone else previously. A person who identifies with the subtle
body might then identify with the previous life.
You'll say, the transmigration is a fact, whether the ego admits it or not.
I agree with this -- what the ego says is not conclusive. What causes the
future subtle and causal bodies to be formed is in the current person's
vasanas. But the being resulting from the transmigration will be
This should not be surprising, since all identification with one of
the 5 sheaths is false. What is, is Brahman, the holder of all identity.
Nothing that is under the sway of ignorance, mistaking one of the 3
bodies or the 5 sheaths, has its own identity or reality anyway.
>accountability is the individual - the ego - he is not eliminated by death.
That's just it -- who?? If the ego is Greg or sadananda, then in the
previous life, the ego was someone else. If the ego is not Greg or sadananda,
then Greg or sadananda is some kind of entity that identifies with the
ego. And who would that be?
>Death of ego occurs only ones and that is when it is completely
The transmigration of the soul involves the vasanas with the
>subtle body. That is how the re-incarnation is explained not by some other
>persons sins one is taking.
Yes, I think I too have seen that it's not an issue in Vedanta. But with my
notion of the person (and yours too, it seems), it could be entailed.
> It is his own but his is identifiable with
>subtle and kaarana shareeras only.
Again, "whose" own?
>Logic is perfect and self-consistent whether one agrees with it are not.
I agee with this too, but what you have said above about the shareeras
is not logic, but scripture. Logic (deductive) is only a way of
guaranteeing sound arguments, that is, true conclusions when you begin
with true premises. You know, as in syllogisms, etc.
As for the shareeras and kosas themselves, the Hindu scriptures were the
ones I know to have come up with this idea. But recently there are many, many
other formulations (mostly in the West) of the different levels of the human
organism. This is even beginning to be taken seriously in U.S. medicine.
Some researchers are able to perceive 9-12 different levels of energy,
and say, subdivide the subtle body and buddhic and mental sheaths into
several distiguishable parts.
Also, there are researches into past-life regression, with good evidence
that a person's impressions, memories, inclinations (like vasanas) actually
come from several previous lives, maybe all lived at the same time.
>There is story to illustrate the point. Two close friends used to go out
>every day up to a point and depart to pursue their respective interests;
>one to a brothel place and the other to a temple for meditation. They both
>died on at the same time. Angles came to take the soul of the person who
>was going to brothel while the agents of hell came to take the soul of the
>person going to the temple.
I have a problem understanding this because of the notion of "soul."
Would that be the subtle body, or Brahman Itself?
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