[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Chandramouli ji,

I agree with statements in general in your email. Some points where I had a
slightly different view:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023, 01:36 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Venkat Ji,
>
> Reg  // buddhyA parikalpitena rather than buddhau parikalpitena //,
>
> They need not be understood as being mutually exclusive.
>
True.

buddhyA parikalpitena can be understood as the manifestation of deep rooted
> conviction *in* the mind, buddhau parikalpitena.
>
I had meant buddhau in the sense of the adhyAsa being exclusively located
in the mind, ie jnAna adhyAsa, with no corresponding artha adhyAsa, which I
took to be the meaning ascribed to the phrase buddhiparikalpita by Sri
Bhaskar ji.

If you recall, I had mentioned that in artha adhyAsa, the superimposition
of the snake takes place at the location of the rope, rather than it purely
located in the mind. To which, Sri Bhaskar had cited this bhAShya to say
that the snake is only located in the mind. He had said and I quote:

"The rajju-sarpa example has been given to drive home the point that there
is no sarpa in rajju and sarpaavayava are mere imagination."

I had offered an alternative explanation for the phrase - whether you agree
with that explanation or not, the more important question is whether you
agree with Bhaskar ji with respect to this bhAshya being evidence of the
rope snake being purely located in the mind ie refuting anirvachanIya
khyAti or, alternatively, whether you accept that an anirvachanIya snake is
created in the location of the snake at the time of adhyAsa.

In fact, deep rooted conviction *in* the mind, buddhau parikalpitena,
>  would be more appropriate in the current context, it being svAbhAvika,
> naisargika.
>
Maybe, but my point is that this bhAShya is not a proof of the untenability
of anirvachanIya khyAti - ie the creation of an anirvachanIya snake at the
location of the rope (arthAdhyAsa) and the creation of a corresponding
cognition of the snake in the mind (jnAnAdhyAsa). There are several
possible interpretations of the phrase buddhiparikalpita that are possible
and to reduce it to merely one and use it as evidence against anirvachanIya
khyAti is untenable in my opinion.


Reg  // That is why Shankaracharya mentions the mRtghaTa and the rajjusarpa
> examples in the same sentence (because there is something additional he
> wishes to convey with the second example) //,
>
> Notice the use of the word आदि(Adi)(etcetera) in  रज्ज्वादि सर्पाद्याकारेण
> in respect of vivarta vikAra as against मृद्घटाद्याकारेण in respect of
> pariNAma vikAra. It is used in respect of both रज्जु (rajju) and सर्प(sarpa)
> in one while it is used only in respect of घट(ghata) but not in respect
> of मृत् (mRRit) in the other.  Multiplicity is seen simultaneously in the
> case of  mRtghaTAdi (such as pot, lump etc), and hence difference between
> them can be  perceived by the mind. But multiplicity is not seen
> simulataneously if only the standard rajjusarpa illustration is considered
> for vivarta vikAra even if आदि(Adi)(etcetera) word is used in respect of
> sarpa. Rope is perceived either as snake or as garland or as stick or as
> crack in the wall, only one at a time. Difference cannot be perceived.
> Hence रज्ज्वादि  in रज्ज्वादि सर्पाद्याकारेण  is intended to be the
> equivalent for घटादि of मृद्घटाद्याकारेण. रज्ज्वादि represents all
> objects simultaneously perceived at any given time, all of which are
> vivarta vikAra. सर्पाद्याकारेण is to convey vivarta vikAra. They are all
> conceived as different from each other by the mind though in reality they
> are all सत्(sat) only. That in my understanding is what Sri Bhagavatpada
> intends to convey by mentioning  the mRtghaTa and the rajjusarpa examples
> in the same sentence.
>

I have a different understanding to the above to what you have provided,
but that is not relevant to the point under discussion, so will not go into
the reasons for that now.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

>