[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Varna-system and Hinduism - as seen by missionaries

sreenivasa murthy narayana145 at yahoo.co.in
Mon Apr 24 21:07:25 EDT 2023

 Dear Friends,
Varnashrama dharma is meant for human beings which we think we are.Is this thinking correct?Are we really human beings or something else?Have you examined this thought position in the light of Upanishad teachings?ahamEvEdagM sarvam ||Chandogya 7-25-1
AtmaivEdagM sarvam || Chandogya 7-25-2
Please do it. 

It is for your own good.Your well-wisher,Sreenivasa Murthy

    On Monday, 24 April, 2023 at 11:12:59 pm IST, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhattacharjya at gmail.com> wrote:  
 Dear Mr. Kaushik,
If you think Lord Krishna was wrong in his statement in the Bhagavad Gita, you have every right to have your own interpretation. 

I can't agree with you. Brahmarshi Vishvamitra was born a kshatriya and he could change his varna because he knew that to become a brahmin he needed to develop the brahmanical  qualities. Similarly one born in a brahmin family, may not remain a brahmin, if one does not maintain the brahmanical qualities. 

Jai Shri Krishna
My 2 centsSunil K.B.

My 2 cents,

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 10:18 PM Kaushik Chevendra <chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste sir.

Dear friends,

This is just to remind you that Lord Krishna had told about the Varna
system, most appropriately in the Bhagavad Gita,  as follows:

ब्राह्मणक्षत्रियविशां शूद्राणां च परन्तप |
कर्माणि प्रविभक्तानि स्वभावप्रभवैर्गुणै: || 18:41||

*BG 18.41*: The duties of the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, and
Shudras—are according to their qualities (and has nothing to do with birth).

This interpretation is wrong. The caste has to do both with karma and janma. They aren't independently capable of deciding caste. This view is against the vedas, dharmashastras and shankaracharya.

Jai Shri Krishna

My 2 cents
Sunil K B

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 9:56 PM putran M <putranm4 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaskaram,
> Varna dharma is an integral part of traditional Hinduism and advaita
> sampradaya. Therefore this remarkable article is relevant to us.
> https://pragyata.com/christian-missionaries-on-caste/
> It lets us see through the words of 19th and early 20th century
> missionaries how “caste” was “a singular insurmountable hurdle between the
> heathendom and its Christianisation.”
> “Caste gives form and life and strength to the Hindu religion. Hinduism
> would soon be shivered to atoms if it were not for caste. This is Satan’s
> masterpiece.” - Rev. Myron Winslow
> The kanchi paramacharya or mahaperiva also opined similarly of the varna
> dharma, albeit in a positive light:
> “If some faiths in India itself and outside have declined and if our
> religion alone has survived for ten thousand years, does it not mean that
> it has something that is lacking in others? This something is the varna
> system. Our present-day reformers argue that the varna division is
> responsible for the disintegration of our society. The fact is it is
> precisely this division, varna dharma, that has sustained it and kept it
> intact. It follows that this dharma has features that are superior in
> character to concepts like equality, features that are vital to the very
> well-being of people. Our society is divided on the basis of it, but it
> must be noted that this division has helped our religion to preserve itself
> successfully against all onslaughts.”
> https://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part3/chap2.htm
> My thought/opinion:
> I would say differently from Mr. Winslow, that Satan’s masterpiece is the
> abrahamic who has managed to get the Hindu to imitate him, to think of
> himself and his traditions like the abrahamic wanted him to think, and to
> actively destroy the foundations of what held him to his Dharma. “We’ve
> been played” is a feeling I got when reading the article. Unlike the Hindus
> described in the article however, today’s Hindus need hardly care when they
> throw their “caste” and custom to the dustbin - for both family and society
> look past such acts, condone or even approve them for it. Hindu parents
> plan ahead to minimize the ‘stigma’ of traditional svadharma in their
> toddler’s growth and existence, either because they themselves think it
> wrong or because they think it hinders blending and succeeding in the
> modern world.
> The missionary’s objectives have largely become accomplished that we have
> turned into a tribe of trishankus, with our heads hanging upside down. Some
> in this state I am sure will become easy plucking for the missionary as he
> hoped for; but it is unclear what the long term trajectory for the Hindu
> civilization will be. Perhaps with greater knowledge and awareness, there
> will also be a shift back to traditional (orthodox) religion of which
> birth-based varna dharma is an integral part.
> Hindus should read the article and introspect.
> thollmelukaalkizhu
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