[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Chitta vRutti nirOdha

sreenivasa murthy narayana145 at yahoo.co.in
Thu Sep 29 10:36:23 EDT 2022

 Dear Sri Akilesh Ayyar,
    In the sentence "So nirodha (control) is useless and cannotbe of lasting benefit."  the word "USELESS" has been used. It means it is useless only and nothing else.Please do not twist the meaning of  that word.
With warm regards,Sreenivasa Murthy.

    On Thursday, 29 September, 2022 at 02:56:23 pm GMT+1, Akilesh Ayyar <akilesh at siftingtothetruth.com> wrote:  
He means that nirodha ALONE is not enough, is wrongly thought to be sufficient. You need to add the element of discrimination. But Maharshi is very clear in many places  that mental control is extremely necessary to the seeker. However you attain it, mental quiet and concentration are necessary prerequisites to the dawning of Jnana.
E.g. elsewhere in the Talks he says:
M.: Yogas chitta vritti nirodhah - (Yoga is to check the mind from changing) - which is acceptable to all. That is also the goal of all. The method is chosen according to one’s own fitness. The goal for all is the same. Yet different names are given to the goal only to suit the process preliminary to reaching the goal. Bhakti, Yoga, Jnana are all the same. Svasvarupanusandhanam bhaktirity abhidheeyate (Self contemplation is called bhakti).
In Guru Vachaka Kovai:
916. When the mind does not wander in the least through any of the senses, which are the cause that throws one into misery, and when the mind remains subsided like a stormy ocean which has completely subsided and become calm, that is Jnana.917. Just as the sun cannot be seen in a densely clouded sky, so one’s own Self cannot be seen in a mind-sky which is darkened by a dense cloud of thoughts.
Or from Crumbs from my Table, this famous passage:
D: When I am engaged in enquiry as to the source from which the 'I' springs, I arrive at a stage of stillness of mind beyond which I find myself unable to proceed further. I have no thought of any kind and there is an emptiness. a blankness. A mild light pervades and I feel that it is myself bodiless. I have neither cognition nor vision of body and form. The experience lasts nearly half an hour and is pleasing. Would I be correct in concluding that all that was necessary to secure eternal happiness (i.e. freedom or salvation or whatever one calls it) was to continue the practice till this experience could be maintained for hours, days and months together?
B: This does not mean salvation; such a condition is termed manolaya or temporary stillness of thought. Manolaya means concentration, temporarily arresting the movement of thoughts; as soon as this concentration ceases, thoughts, old and new, rush in as usual and even though this temporary lulling of mind should last a thousand years it will never lead to total destruction of thought, which is what is called salvation or liberation from birth and death. The practicer must therefore be ever on the alert and enquire within as to who has this experience, who realises its pleasantness. Failing this enquiry he will go into a long trance or deep sleep (Yoga nidra). Due to the absence of a proper guide at this stage of spiritual practice many have been delude and fallen a prey to a false sense of salvation and only a few have, either by the merit of good acts in their previous births, or by extreme grace, been enables to reach the goal safely.Sadhakas (seekers) rarely understand the difference between this temporary stilling of the mind (manolaya) and permanent destruction of thoughts (manonasa). In manolaya there is temporary subsidence of thought-waves, and, though this temporary period may even last for a thousand years, thoughts, which are thus temporarily stilled, rise up as soon as the manolaya ceases. One must therefore, watch one's spiritual progress carefully. One must not allow oneself to be overtaken by such spells of stillness of thought: the moment one experiences this, one must revive consciousness and enquire within as to who it is who experiences this stillness. While not allowing any thoughts to intrude, he must not, at the same time, be overtaken by this deep sleep (Yoga nidra) or Self-hypnotism. Though this is a sign of progress towards the goal, yet it is also the point where the divergence between the road to salvation and Yoga nidra takes place. The easy way, the direct way, the shortest cut to salvation is the Enquiry method. By such enquiry, you will drive the thought force deeper till it reaches its source and merges therein. It is then that you will have the response from within and find that you rest there, destroying all thoughts, once and for all.This temporary stilling of thought comes automatically in the usual course of one's practice and it is a clear sign of one's progress but the danger of it lies in mistaking it for the final goal of spiritual practice and being thus deceived. It is exactly here that a spiritual guide is necessary and he saves a lot of the spiritual aspirant's time and energy which would otherwise be fruitlessly wasted.

Akilesh AyyarSpiritual guidance - http://www.siftingtothetruth.com/

 On Sep 29, 2022 at 9:03:54 AM, 'sreenivasa murthy' via advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
 Dear friends, Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi says :Quote :

M : Again people often ask how the mind is controlled. I say tothem,

“Show me the mind and then you will know what to do.” The factis

that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can youextinguish it

by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your thoughts anddesires

are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened bynew

thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to killthe mind by means of the mind. The only way of doing it is to find its sourceand hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its own accord. Yoga teacheschitta vritti nirodha (control of the activities of the mind). But I sayAtma vichara (Self-investigation). This is the practical way.Chittavritti nirodha is brought about in sleep, swoon or by starvation. As soonas the cause is withdrawn there is recrudescence of thoughts. Of what use is itthen? In the state of stupor there is peace and no misery. But misery recurswhen the stupor is removed. So nirodha (control) is useless and cannotbe of lasting benefit.
                                               [ Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi; Dialogue  485]
Unquote .Any comments from the scholar members of this group?With respectful namaskars ,Sreenivasa Murty

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