[Advaita-l] Shabda-ajanya-vritti-vishayatva of tuchch
agnimile at gmail.com
Wed Dec 29 21:13:01 EST 2021
First sentence should say "it only applies to mithyArUpa abhAva". No need
to limit it to vyAvahArika only.
On Thu, 30 Dec 2021, 07:39 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, it only applies to vyAvahArika abhAva, not tucCha. Shankaracharya is
> saying it is adhikaraNAtmakam. But Sudhanshu ji is extending that to say
> that kAraNatva abhAva also is bhAvAtmakam only.
> If you look at the bhAShya, shankarAchArya uses the
> term चतुर्विधानामभावानाम् - asat is not an abhAva that belongs to any of
> the four - prAgabhAva, pradhvamsAbhAva, atyantAbhAva or anyonyAbhAva. The
> naiyyAyika does not accept that asat falls within atyantAbhAva. He alleges
> that asat cannot be the viShaya of the "nAsti" shabda prayoga itself. The
> abhAva of asat has neither a pratiyogi nor an anuyogi.
> Now kAraNatva of mRt is mithyA, but the kAraNatva of shashashRnga is not
> mithyA but asat only. Similarly kAraNatva abhAva of a shashashRnga is asat
> only. Why? Because both the pratiyogi (kAraNatva) and anuyogi
> (shashashRnga) for such an abhAva are asat.
> There is this famous verse:
> एष वन्ध्यासुतो याति खपुष्पकृतशेखरः ।
> मृगतृष्णाम्भसि स्नातः शशशृङ्गधनुर्धरः ॥
> This son of a barren woman is arriving, wearing skyflowers in his hair,
> having bathed in the waters of the mirage and holding a bow made of a
> hare's horn.
> Here walking, having flowers in the hair, bathing, and holding a bow are
> all vyAvahArika things. However in association with tucCha they are all
> asat. Similarly kAraNatva / kAraNatva abhAva can be mithyA, but in
> association with asat, they are asat only.
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021, 13:22 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> Reg << The abhAva being bhAvAtmaka is acceptable to us, but not the
>> opponent. So
>> Shankaracharya's bhAShya cannot be invoked as support for it when
>> the argument against such an opponent >>,
>> Is this BhAshya portion BSB 1-2-1 applicable in respect of tuchcha
>> which is devoid of any substratum ?. My understanding is that abhAva is
>> relevant in accordance with this ONLY in respect of objects having a
>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:34 AM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> shrI Sudhanshu ji,
>>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021, 23:17 Sudhanshu Shekhar, <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
>>> > //tucCha also has kAraNatva abhAva, but it is asat, not mithyA.//
>>> > This is not yet proved.
>>> This is the argument that the opponent makes against us - we accept that
>>> tucCha is asat. So he will say - you advaitins agree that tucCha is asat
>>> and also agree that it has kAraNatva abhAva. So such an anumAna can be
>>> directed against the advaitin.
>>> This was my argument that neither akAraNatva (hetu) nor akshaNikatva
>>> > (sAdhya) can belong to tuchcha. My point is - kAraNatva is bhAvarUpa,
>>> so as
>>> > per BU 1.2.1 logic, kAraNatva-abhAva has to be bhAvarUpa
>>> (non-tuchcha). And
>>> > it cannot belong to tuchcha (because bhAvarUpa cannot belong to
>>> The abhAva being bhAvAtmaka is acceptable to us, but not the opponent. So
>>> Shankaracharya's bhAShya cannot be invoked as support for it when
>>> the argument against such an opponent.
>>> > //Similarly akshaNikatva. shuddha brahma has akshaNikatva, but it is
>>> > mithyA. Similarly tucCha - it is akshaNikam, but asat, not mithyA.//
>>> > Same logic as in case of akAraNatva. Since kshaNikatva is bhAvarUpa,
>>> > akshaNikatva shall be bhAvarUpa (including bhAva). Moreover, //
>>> > tucCha - it is akshaNikam, but asat, not mithyA// - can we make this
>>> > statement just like that - the opponent is using anumAna to prove this
>>> > can we apply our gut feeling for this statement. I don't think so.
>>> > In the case of bhrama, can we argue like this - Devadatta is being
>>> > perceived out of ajnAna of Yajnadatta-avachchinna-chaitanya. So what is
>>> > being perceived as Devadatta is a product of avastha-ajnAna. danDa is a
>>> > product of mUla-ajnAna. Both danDa and Devadatta are products of ajnAna
>>> > only. Only that their avachchinna Chaitanya are different. So, as such,
>>> > does danDa have higher level of reality than Devadatta if we
>>> categorise the
>>> > reality as sat, mithyA and tuchcha? I don't think so. Both danDa and
>>> > Devadatta will be mithyA only.
>>> Yes both are mithyA, but daNDa is vyAvahArika, Devadatta is prAtibhAsika.
>>> So on that basis, the former is certainly of a higher order than the
>>> latter. This approach has been taken in the dvitIyamithyAtva chapter.
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