[Advaita-l] shankara speaking on behalf of or speaking to ??

H S Chandramouli hschandramouli at gmail.com
Thu Nov 23 02:48:06 EST 2017

Namaste Sri Bhaskar Ji,

Reg  << So, even after samyak jnana, the paramArtha jnAni continue to be
bhOktru due to prArabdha karma phala.  That means a jnAni could be a
bhOktru and not kartru.  This is very interesting observation.  Now the
doubt is this bhOktrutva exists in the jnAni without pramAtrutva??  And
“enjoying” the fruits of past actions do have any dhArmic restrictions for
the jnAni??  If yes, then prArabdha karma phala would have the restricted
boundaries for the jnAni, if not then that ‘bhOktrutva’ (enjoying the
phala) would be of any category.  Hope you have noticed  where I am trying
to drive this ‘bhoktrutvaM’ of the jnAni. >>,

Let me first clarify “enjoying”. It means “experiencing”. Consider a person
witnessing a movie intently, at the same time eating popcorn ( a very
common thing after interval). At the end of the film, the pop corn packet
is empty. But he hardly remembers to have eaten. Does he have “pramAtRtva”
or “bhOktRtva” as far as eating is concerned. I do not think so. Eating in
such a case is practically an involuntary act. We can now extend this to
the case of a jnAni. All prarabdha karma phalas are like “eating”. He may
“enjoy” them as “bhOktR” (pramAtR) or he may not even notice them (like the
movie watcher) in which case he is not a “bhOkR” (pramAtR) in the sense of
“enjoying” or “experiencing” them. There are no dharmic restrictions for
the jnAni for “enjoying” the phalas. This is essentially dependent on the
residual vAsanAs (elaborated later in the post).

Reg  << How this vAsana would get generated if it is not the result of
karma phala / saMskAra and resultant actions / pravrutti?? >>


<<  From this do we have to understand even after samyak jnana, the jnAni
would get vAsana-s while enjoying the karma phala-s and to subdue  those
strong vAsana-s he has to put ‘further’ effort in the form of sAdhana /
saNyAsa etc.??  or am I missing something here?? >>

vAsanAs refer to residual vAsanAs carried forward from previous births. Not
to what is generated due to current actions.

Reg  << Okay, as per above, the pravrutti of ‘killing shatru’ is due to
vAsana which can be tamed by doing the sAdhana and through viveka etc.  Now
again the question is “ does he enjoy the act of killing of his shatru’ by
somebody else??  since bhOktrutva is the prArabdha karma phala on which he
does not have any control??  Kindly pardon me, I am not doing vittanda
here…I am just going by your clarification with regard to pravrutti is due
to vAsana and bhOktrutva is because of prArabdha karma phala and on the
latter he does not have any control but the former can be avoided by the
rigors of sAdhana and vivechana. >>,

I did not say  “  bhOktrutva is because of prArabdha karma phala “, but
that   prArabdha karma phala relates only to   bhOktrutva and not to
kartRtva. For his current actions a jnAni may or may not have kartRtva
and/or bhOtRtva as explained earlier in this post. I hope I am clear on the

Reg  <<  So the jnAni is an individual, he has the BMI, he will have the
parichinnatva is his own BMI even after having the knowledge that he is
nirupAdhika tureeyAtma.  As a result of this parichinnatva he would
continue to ‘enjoy’ his karma phala and continue to do sAdhana to negate
the vAsana. >>,

Yes concerning first part. As to whether he undertakes further sadhanas or
not is entirely at his discretion. There is no compulsion. He is assured of
freedom from future births irrespective of his actions. However if he
desires to reap the full benefits of Brahmavidya, which is the recommended
goal in the Sidhanta, then he may need to pursue further sadhanas to
achieve the same.

Reg  << In which way traces of avidyA would affect the paramArtha jnAni and
how this can be differentiated from the prArabdha karma phala.>>,

I hope this is covered above. Traces of avidya which prevent achieving the
full benefits of Brahmavidya relate to the need for vAsanAkshaya and

Hopefully I have conveyed my understanding reasonably on all the issues
raised by you.



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