[Advaita-l] shankara speaking on behalf of or speaking to ??
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Wed Nov 22 07:48:19 EST 2017
praNAms Sri Chandramouli prabhuji
Sorry, today only I got some time to look at mails and reply.
Reg <<Can we say prArabdha karma phala is nothing but avidyA lesha or these two are entirely different?? >>,
I think the two are different.
Ø Kindly elaborate. In which way traces of avidyA would affect the paramArtha jnAni and how this can be differentiated from the prArabdha karma phala.
Karma phala relates only to events leading to enjoying the fruits of past actions ; only bhOktrutva. Does not relate to actions ; kartrutva. A specific example to illustrate what I mean is covered below.
Ø So, even after samyak jnana, the paramArtha jnAni continue to be bhOktru due to prArabdha karma phala. That means a jnAni could be a bhOktru and not kartru. This is very interesting observation. Now the doubt is this bhOktrutva exists in the jnAni without pramAtrutva?? And “enjoying” the fruits of past actions do have any dhArmic restrictions for the jnAni?? If yes, then prArabdha karma phala would have the restricted boundaries for the jnAni, if not then that ‘bhOktrutva’ (enjoying the phala) would be of any category. Hope you have noticed where I am trying to drive this ‘bhoktrutvaM’ of the jnAni.
Reg << As we know the result of the prArabdha karma phala is our / jnAni's current body and corresponding pravrutti of the indriya-s on which even jnAni has no control though he has the absolute detachment with the firm conviction of akatrutva / abhOktrutva jnana. >>,
I do not think so. “pravrutti of the indriya-s “ relates to vAsanAs and not to prArabdha karma phala.
Ø Kindly pardon me. I am not able to follow this. How this vAsana would get generated if it is not the result of karma phala / saMskAra and resultant actions / pravrutti??
A jnAni can still take to sAdhanAs to control them which is what vidvat sanyAsa is all about, and derive benefits in the current body itself.
Ø From this do we have to understand even after samyak jnana, the jnAni would get vAsana-s while enjoying the karma phala-s and to subdue those strong vAsana-s he has to put ‘further’ effort in the form of sAdhana / saNyAsa etc.?? or am I missing something here??
Reg << As per prArabdha karma, a jnAni supposed to kill his pUrva janma shatru, >>,
As I said earlier. I don’t think “ killing a shatru “ is a “ karma phala “. Such a pravritti could be a vAsana. Coming face to face with or encountering a pUrva janma shatru could be a karma phala. This is what I meant earlier on in this post.
Ø Okay, as per above, the pravrutti of ‘killing shatru’ is due to vAsana which can be tamed by doing the sAdhana and through viveka etc. Now again the question is “ does he enjoy the act of killing of his shatru’ by somebody else?? since bhOktrutva is the prArabdha karma phala on which he does not have any control?? Kindly pardon me, I am not doing vittanda here…I am just going by your clarification with regard to pravrutti is due to vAsana and bhOktrutva is because of prArabdha karma phala and on the latter he does not have any control but the former can be avoided by the rigors of sAdhana and vivechana.
Reg << And again, my doubt still unanswered here...shankara talking all these about jnAni on behalf of jnAni-s and jnAni-s mental status after jnana or is it for the ajnAni-s who cannot go beyond the body of the jnAni?? >>,
I think this is answered above. Sri Bhagavtpada is talking of the jnAni only. It is not from the point of view of ajnAni.
Ø So the jnAni is an individual, he has the BMI, he will have the parichinnatva is his own BMI even after having the knowledge that he is nirupAdhika tureeyAtma. As a result of this parichinnatva he would continue to ‘enjoy’ his karma phala and continue to do sAdhana to negate the vAsana.
Ø Kindly clarify if I am misrepresenting your views.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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