[Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

It is merely a harsh reality, Kalyan. Of course, your two lines of response
to Anand Hudli came across as being either quite sarcastic or extremely
patronizing. I find it telling that you do not cite anything about your
interactions with the other list members I named earlier. I also find it
telling that you jumped to talking about sarcasm here. It shows that you
are well aware how your readership view you.

You can pretend otherwise, but take a look once again at how you reacted to
Bhaskar YR immediately after your exchange with Sri Hudli, when he ventured
to add something to that thread. You chose not to take Bhaskar at face
value, yet you ask to be taken at face value every single time.

If being neutral means you expect me to be "inoffensive
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+inoffensive&forcedict=inoffensive&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIQTAA>
, bland
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+bland&forcedict=bland&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIQjAA>
, unobjectionable
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+unobjectionable&forcedict=unobjectionable&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIQzAA>
, unexceptionable
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+unexceptionable&forcedict=unexceptionable&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIRDAA>
, anodyne
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+anodyne&forcedict=anodyne&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIRTAA>
, unremarkable
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+unremarkable&forcedict=unremarkable&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIRjAA>
, ordinary
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+ordinary&forcedict=ordinary&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoIRzAA>
, commonplace
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+commonplace&forcedict=commonplace&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoISDAA>
;
safe
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+safe&forcedict=safe&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoISjAA>
, harmless
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+harmless&forcedict=harmless&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoISzAA>
, innocuous
<https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&q=define+innocuous&forcedict=innocuous&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixwe3Yi4nUAhUJ2oMKHYETD4cQ_SoITDAA>
,
" then I can't remember the last time I was neutral. I don't think I have
never been that in my entire life so far.

Your very first response to me in this round of exchanges (
http://advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2017-May/045201.html) reveals
that although I had had the minimum of direct interaction with you on this
list, I had already been judged me as being biased and partisan with
respect to you. Don't expect that anyone should believe this to be your
first personal attack on me. Your knee jerk reaction of calling this entire
group a coterie and daring me to do "whatever I want as a moderator," was a
general attack on the list as a whole and also a direct personal attack on
me. If you already knew that I would warn you sooner or later, then it
follows that you already knew that your behavior was not on the up and up.
So, please don't protest that my assessment of you is unduly harsh. All
I've done so far is to hold up a mirror to you.

You are welcome to whatever opinion you carry of anyone in this world. I
was a bit amused at one point of time when you professed great respect
towards me (was it on another list that you said that?) and I am a bit
amused now, with your loss of belief and your accusation of my having a
twisted mind.

Vidyasankar


On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Vidyasankar
>
> Thats probably an extremely harsh assessment of my participation in this
> list. I no longer believe in your abilities as a neutral moderator. To show
> you just how wrong you are, since you mention Sri Anand Hudli, I remember
> having only one interaction with Sri Anand and this is how it went-
>
>
> http://advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2017-April/044986.html
>
> Perhaps you thought it was sarcasm, because now I believe that your mind
> is truly twisted (my first personal attack after hearing so much garbage
> from you).
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
>  To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>  Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>, "A discussion group
> for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 3:32 PM
>
>  Kalyan,
>  1. You are
>  not the first nor the only "not a traditional
>  advaitin" on this list. That is not an excuse for your
>  obnoxiousness here. In my experience, unlike you, most
>  "not traditional advaitins" are quite decent
>  people and pleasant to deal with.
>  2. You are the first "not
>  traditional advaitin" here, who has been so disruptive
>  in every discussion thread where you have participated. The
>  manner and content of your responses to various members,
>  including Anand Hudli, YR Bhaskar, Praveen Bhat, S
>  Venkataraghavan and V Subrahmanian among others, has always
>  been questionable at best, all through the last three
>  months. I watched and waited till this last week, before
>  pulling moderator rank on you, to tell you that your modus
>  operandi is not appreciated by anybody with whom you have
>  chosen to engage during this time.
>  3. Your behavior on this list is
>  completely contradictory to your stated purposed of wanting
>  "to understand how traditional advaitins are convinced
>  of the truth of the philosophy." The manner of your
>  engagement with "traditional advaitins" is
>  guaranteed to generate nothing but misunderstanding. In any
>  case, your introductory note conveniently left out that you
>  saw "unresolvable (sic) questions and
>  contradictions." If you had stated that up front, we
>  moderators would have asked you to clarify, prior to
>  subjecting 500+ members of this list to these unsavory
>  exchanges in public.
>  4. You are in no position to claim
>  that you have not personally attacked any member of this
>  forum. I gave you a mild warning about modulating your
>  online behavior and you launched into an attack on the
>  entire list in response.
>  http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2017-May/045201.html
>  Through that one post, you
>  questioned the integrity of every single person who is on
>  this list. As a moderator, I'm merely doing my job. I
>  have had to drag it out of you, regarding your past history
>  as a member of this list from a different email ID. Hiding
>  who you are is operating in bad faith.I have asked you why
>  you still want to associate yourself with us, no matter
>  which way you look at it. Your answer to that part is still
>  pending.
>  5. Of course,
>  you can only expect "similar behavior" from our
>  side. And you are getting back exactly that, although it is
>  actually a lot milder than what you otherwise deserve.
>  Still, you reap as you sow.
>  Vidyasankar
>
>  On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
>  10:43 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>  wrote:
>  //
>
>  You have not answered my straightforward question,
>  "what is your purpose for being on this list?"
>  //
>
>
>
>  I will answer this question if only to reduce your anger.
>  But before answering, let me make a small point. In my
>  introductory message itself I made it very clear that I am
>  not a traditional vedAntin. Refer below link -
>
>
>
>  http://lists.advaita-vedanta.
>  org/archives/advaita-l/2017- February/044615.html
>
>
>
>  So the moderators admitted me into the list, knowing fully
>  well that I am not a traditional advaitin.
>
>
>
>  Now to answer your question - I joined this list to
>  understand how traditional advaitins are convinced of the
>  truth of their philosophy, in the light of what I see as
>  unresolvable questions and contradictions in advaita.
>
>
>
>  Now I hope your question is answered. I have infact not
>  written any post here where I personally attacked any member
>  of this forum. I expect similar behavior from your side.
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------ --------------
>
>  On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar
>  Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s
>  - Mahabharata
>
>   To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>
>   Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>,
>  "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>  vedanta.org>
>
>   Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 2:22 PM
>
>
>
>   That's
>
>   rich, Kalyan. If you think you are provoking me by
>
>   repeatedly bringing up my being a moderator here,
>  you're
>
>   not. You're merely proving that you're a
>
>   curmudgeon.
>
>   You have not
>
>   answered my straightforward question, "what is
>  your
>
>   purpose for being on this list?" Others, who are
>  not
>
>   moderators of this list, have asked you the same
>  question
>
>   and you have yet to answer that. You had better find a
>  way
>
>   to answer that and decide for yourself whether you want
>  to
>
>   contribute productively or if you simply want to shoot
>  and
>
>   scoot.
>
>   Vidyasankar
>
>
>
>   On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
>
>   9:39 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>   Calm
>
>   down. Just because you are the moderator you cannot
>  write
>
>   abusive messages. I have merely presented the facts
>  from
>
>   Shankara bhAshyas. I have not invented anything on my
>  own.
>
>   There is no need to get so angry. There is no need to
>
>   develop a visceral hatred for me.
>
>
>
>       On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:44 PM,
>
>   Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>    Oh,
>
>   come off it. You know, sometimes it's better to
>  keep
>
>   quiet and be thought a fool than to say something and
>  remove
>
>   all doubt. It's a pity that you've been
>  repeatedly
>
>   choosing the latter option.
>
>   Once
>
>   again, what is your purpose in being on a list that is
>
>   dedicated to traditional advaita vedAnta if you have a
>  poor
>
>   opinion of everyone from Adi Sankara down? Just to
>  exhibit
>
>   some bravado daring the moderators to throw you
>
>   out?
>
>   Vidyasankar
>
>   On May 24, 2017 7:44 AM,
>
>   "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>
>   wrote:
>
>   //The
>
>   criticism of these other schools centers around the
>  fact
>
>   that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
>  same
>
>   Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
>  these
>
>   other schools, subject to agreement with the
>  aupanishada
>
>   teachings.//
>
>
>
>   Once
>
>   again, reality is different from the above. In BSB
>  2.2.32,
>
>   Shankara summarily dismisses the entire Bauddha school.
>  He
>
>   further says that either the Buddha is a man who makes
>
>   incoherent assertions or has hatred for all beings.
>  This,
>
>   despite the fact that Shankara himself acknowledges the
>
>   closeness of his school with that of the Buddhists in
>  his
>
>   Mandukya karika bhashya!
>
>
>
>       On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:13 PM,
>
>   Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>    The
>
>   criticism of these other schools centers around the
>  fact
>
>   that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
>  same
>
>   Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
>  these
>
>   other schools, subject to agreement with the
>  aupanishada
>
>   teachings.
>
>   SrutyanusAra-ananusAra
>
>   vishaya-vivecanena sanmArge prajnA sangrahaNIyA, and
>
>   paramatam apratishiddham anumataM bhavati, he
>
>   says.
>
>   In contrast,
>
>   bhakti towards a particular form of ISvara is a key step
>  in
>
>   the jnAnamArga of advaita vedAnta, provided people
>  don't
>
>   get caught up in the ridiculous my God is better than
>  your
>
>   God attitude. Unfortunately, this is a trap that many
>
>   vaishNavas and Saivas find very difficult to
>
>   avoid.
>
>   Once again, rather than get caught
>
>   up in superficialities, please pay attention to the
>  details.
>
>   There is a huge amount of material in our own list
>  archives
>
>   as a starting point. That is, if one can put resentment
>
>   aside and read with an open mind.
>
>   Vidyasankar
>
>   On
>
>   May 24, 2017 4:49 AM, "Kalyan via Advaita-l"
>
>   <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>
>   vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>   //Here lies the greatness of we
>
>   advaitins that we never criticise any path and take
>
>   everyone in our own stride and move on....//
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Sri Venkata Sriram, Shankara has criticized mimamsa,
>  nyaya,
>
>   samkhya, yoga, vaiseshika, bauddha, jaina, pashupata,
>
>   pancaratra, carvaka philosophers in his commentaries. To
>  say
>
>   that advaitins do not criticize anybody is far removed
>  from
>
>   reality.
>
>
>
>   RegardsKalyan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:28 PM, Venkata sriram
>  P
>
>   via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>
>   vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    Namaste,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ////
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Appayya Dikshitha probably has not studied the entire
>
>   Mahabharata.
>
>
>
>   In Shanti parvan, when Vishnu shows his Vishwaroopa to
>
>   Narada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ///
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Those who are making furore over the
>  मन्दत्व
>
>   of अप्पय दीक्षितः, why
>  don't
>
>   they raise
>
>
>
>   objections to the remark of वेदान्त
>
>   देशिकः when he makes a remark against
>
>   दक्षिणामुर्तिः
>
>
>
>   vide shloka no. 7 of his हयग्रीव
>
>   स्तोत्रं :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   दाक्षिण्यरम्या
>
>   गिरिशस्य मूर्तिः
>  देवी
>
>   सरोजासन धर्मपत्नी ।
>
>
>
>   व्यासादयोऽपि
>
>   व्यपदेश्यवाचः
>
>   स्फुरन्ति सर्वे तव
>
>   शक्तिलेशैः ॥ ७॥
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   "the pretty south-faced Ishwara (dakshinamurti),
>  Devi
>
>   Saraswati and Bhagavan Badarayana -
>
>
>
>   all three draw their power of Knowledge from Lord
>
>   Hayagriva"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Granted that these compositions show one's devotion
>  to
>
>   personal deity but is it not blasphemous
>
>
>
>   to say that the Dakshinamurti who taught the essence of
>
>   vedanta to great brahmanishtaas thru
>
>
>
>   silence draws His knowledge thru Hayagriva.  The
>  greatness
>
>   of dakshinamurti is stated in Bhagavata Purana
>
>
>
>   itself in 4th chapter.  Having seated in
>  'mahAyOga'
>
>   rUpa 'vaTavrikSa', demonstrates the
>
>   'chinmudra' and dispels
>
>
>
>   the doubts to sages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Now, should we advaitins conclude that Vedanta Desika
>
>   didn't study any shastras and was
>
>
>
>   ignorant of the dakshinamurti-tattva?  Certainly
>  not.
>
>   Here lies the greatness of we advaitins
>
>
>
>   that we never criticise any path and take everyone in
>  our
>
>   own stride and move on....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Advaitins are broad-minded and that is why it has
>  become
>
>   more popular and
>
>
>
>   more acceptable today by great logicians and
>
>   philanthropists.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   regs,
>
>
>
>   sriram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ______________________________ _________________
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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