[Advaita-l] Topic for Discussion: What is Nirvikalpaka Samaadhi?

Aurobind Padiyath aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com
Thu Mar 10 02:44:23 CST 2016

Hari Om! Sadaji,
I've understood what you are explaining and agree with you. Basically both
of us are using different prakriyas, and hence the difference.
Once the Srushti is accepted, to explain the experiences of Jeeva, then all
that you said is the way to go forward. Which I'm not in agreement with.
Because for me the view is that the Srushti has never happened. Then only
the words Ajah Nitya Saswatah etc also has meaning. And that's the
conviction I hold. The rope has never become the snake in all the three
times and any explanation glorifying that snake has no meaning either.
Coming to deep sleep the texts like Panchdashi, Vivekachoodamani etc uses
the paradrshti prakriya where as Mandukya, Chandogya, Brhadaranyaka etc
uses Atmadrshti prakriyas. Hence this different approach is a widely argued
in various books but never come to conclusion because of the stand point of
the person and which prakriya he is adopting.

Thank you for giving your views. For academic interest I'll be glad to
receive the file you mentioned.

Hari Om!

On 10 Mar 2016 08:31, "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>

> Shree Aurobind Padiyathji – PraNAms
> First thanks for the email. I am providing my understanding below.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hari Om! Sadaji,
> Your reply from which I'm quoting the portion which I've some clarity
> requirements. Kindly clarify them for me.
> Quote :
> The thought-less mind happens normally in deep-sleep state. In the
> deep-sleep state there is akhanda ajnaana vRitti or constant unbroken
> thought of ignorance of subject-object duality, as the mind is folded. Deep
> sleep state is not meditation since mind is folded and cannot abide in the
> knowledge of aham brahmaasmi.
> Unquote :
> Now my doubts are
> 1. If there is mind in deep sleep it has to have either asti or nasti
> experiences. But as your definition it is folded, means what is the
> swaroopa or swabhava of that mind?
> 2. Is it the amanibhavah?
> 3. Akhanda ajnAn Vritti is not a state possible in deep sleep as ajnAna
> vritti has to have an object. Ignorance of? ??? Nothing? That's not
> ignorance. Ajnana is absence of Jnana not Jnana of nothing.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Sada: The deep sleep state is also called kaaraNa Shareera or Anandamaya
> kosha. The detailed analysis of this has been done by Shree Vidyaranya
> Swami in Pachadashi in the 11th Chapter. I have done exhaustive
> presentation of this under the title – Who slept very well? – one can get
> in the archives or I can send you the word document as it is very lengthy.
> In essence, as one goes to sleep – the annamaya kosha folds into
> praanamaya, praanamaya into manomaya and manomaya into vijnaanamaya and
> vijnaanamaya with all the other koshas together folds and that folded
> vijnanamaya is called ananda maya. Here ananda is not pure sat chit ananda
> but reflected ananda. The reflection of sat aspect is expressed in terms of
> the existence of the koshas, and chit aspect as chidabaasa –as the very
> life principle, and ananda aspect as absence of subject-object duality or
> absence of suffering. The very absence of subject-object duality is
> expressed as ignorance, which is undifferentiated since any differentiation
> requires objectification. Hence these three – sat chit and ananda – are
> recollected once one is awake – I slept very well, I did not know anything
> (this is the ignorance we are talking about) and I was happy. Law of memory
> operates in the sense that the experiencer and recollector of those
> experiences have to be the same.
> Hence, whether a king or a pauper, a chemistry professor or one who is
> ignorant of Chemistry – the experience of deep sleep state is the same.
> This is objective ignorance. The muula avidya will be there for those who
> have not realized and jnaani also sleeps with objective ignorance but
> without muula avidya. Hence Jnaani sleeps as jnaani and also says I slept
> very well and I did not know anything (objective ignorance). More details
> are discussed in the stated article.
> ---------------------------------------
> 4. If I'm to recall the statement described as that of deep sleep is -
> "Sadisambhadya na vidhuh sadisambhadhyamahe". Here the term "na vidhuh" is
> not a state of ignorance as the object of vidhuh is Sat Chit Ananda only
> and it is ever present in all states. But mind which is present only in
> jagrat and swapna is absent in sushupti. Without vritti there is no mind
> because that's the swaroopa of mind.
> Sada:  The mind will not be there only during videha mukti, the body
> merges into virat swaruupa, mind merges into Hiranyagarbha and the
> intellect merges with Iswara. Mind is folded does not mean it is not there.
> It is there in the folded state and unfolding occurs during waking and
> dream – just as the fellow is there inside the blanket!
> When an ajnaani dies, it is the mind  or subtle body goes out of the body
> leaving the body dead, and travels to different lokas required to exhaust
> the next set of vaasanaas. Hence within vyaavhaarika mind never dies.
> Vritti is not the mind – it is the modification of the mind or perturbation
> in the mind. Chitta vRitti nirodha should be making the mind calm and quiet
> by some techniques.  For jnanam, the mind should be active as Jnaana vRitti
> has to take place – hence the advice is to go teacher for Vedanta study.
> Tat viddhi praNipaatena pari prashnena sevayaa – one has to approach the
> teacher with proper attitude with appropriate questions. For example, in
> Vivekchudamani the student provides a series of seven questions for the
> teacher  konaama bandhaH, etc.
> -------------------------------
> 5. The knowledge of Aham Brahmasmi is never within the scope of mind. I'm
> I right?
> Sada: Not true. It is the mind that has ignorance. Shankara addresses this
> exhaustively in the analysis of kshetrajnam cha api maam viddhi – sloka in
> response to puurvapaksha. Manaeva manushyaanaam kaaranam bandha mokshayoH –
> says AmRitabindu Upanishad. Mind is responsible for both bondage and
> liberation too.
> ---------------------------------
> 5b. Mind with the indriyas can only comprehend world external. The moment
> it turns inward it stops being mind.
> Mind comprehends both external and internal worlds –Theses are called
> external perceptions and internal perceptions. For external perceptions
> indriyas or sense organs are involved. For internal perceptions – such as
> angry, happy, love – all emotions – they do not involve indriyas. They are
> directly perceived. In the external perceptions – there is idam vRitti
> related to external object but as discussed in my article – there is aham
> vRitti that spontaneously rises as I know – this is pot, etc. In that there
> is also a notion of ownership that arise with that knowledge depending on
> the I- that one associates with – A jnaani may equate that I know to
> saakshii while ajnaani will equate that I know to individual jeeva – in
> both cases it is via chidaabhaasa only.
> ---------------------------------
> Hope this helps
> Hari Om!
> Sada
> So how can we say in deep sleep the mind is folded?
> Pl enlighten me.
> Hari Om!
> Aurobind Padiyath

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