[Advaita-l] Shankara authenticates Shiva
sjayana at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 18 15:37:36 CDT 2016
Sujal Upadhyay sujal.u at gmail.com wrote:
> Where did you find these discussions *started* by Advaitin, claiming Siva
> is supreme and that vishnu is not supreme?
> Advaitins in general do not attack any school of thought, not atleast
> active members in this list, unless they find something objectionable on
> the net and they reply to it or post a link to that reply. For us,
> superiority of any God does not matter.
> To talk straight, I had a direct interaction with authors of Narayanastra
> Blog over email and on other forums. The claims that they are making simply
> didnt fit advaita. They consider VSN bhashya as authentic work of Adi
> Sankara. When shown quotes #27 Siva and #114 rudra and #505 soma, they will
> ignore. Then they quote Madhusudan Sarasvati, a great kRShNa bhakta. When
> shown quotes from Siddhanta Bindu, BG or his unique commentary on Siva
> mahimna stotra - all showing Siva = Vishnu, they will disregard it as mere
> grammatical play of words. They will disregard writings of Sri Vidyaranya
> Swami. They will disregard the whole set of puranas as tamasika. They will
> disregard all the pUrvAchArya-s of advaita who saluted to Siva or Ganesha
> and say that they are not following true teachings of Adi Sankara.
> Honestly, in the beginning all seems well to discuss with them, but as
> discussion continues, they become hostile, start name calling openly in
> public forums like Veera Shaiva, etc, and their language changes. Apologies
> for directly brining them here, but many posts here that you are pointing
> out are replies to them.
Namaste! Very perceptive posting!
I once wanted to get to the bottom of this "Who is greater - Vishnu or Shiva?"
and wrote out an article on the subject: http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/Shiva.pdf
There are literally DOZENS of instances in the Mahabharata, with HUNDREDS of shlokas that
propound the Supremacy of Shiva. There must have been a conspiracy of epic proportions to
interpolate so many shlokas in so many locations in the Mahabharata!
Not only that, the Jabala Upanishad, the Kaivalya Upanishad, the Shvetashvatara Upanishad,
and more have to be dismissed simply because they praise Shiva, since that's not permitted!
The conspiracy even reaches Veda Vyasa himself, since he wrote Tamasic Puranas to delude
people! But guess what - the ONE shloka in a seldom-read Purana that speaks of the
classification of Puranas is a precious gem that could not possibly have been interpolated!
Here's an example in the Mahabharata where Krishna and Arjuna bow down to Shiva:
“Trident in Hand, Matted Locks on the Head, of Snow-white colour, He was robed in
bark and skin. Endued with Great Energy, His Body seemed to be Flaming with a
Thousand Eyes. And He was seated with Parvati and many creatures of brilliant forms
(around Him). And His attendants were engaged in singing and playing upon musical
instruments, in laughing and dancing, in moving and stretching their hands, and in
uttering loud shouts. And the place was perfumed with fragrant odours, and Rishis that
worshipped Brahman adored with excellent hymns of unfading glory, That God who was
the Protector of All creatures, and Wielded the (great) bow (called Pinaka). Beholding
Him, Vasudeva of righteous soul, with Partha, touched the earth with his head, uttering
the eternal words of the Veda. And Krishna adored, with speech, mind, understanding,
and acts, That God who is the First Source of the Universe, Himself Uncreated, the
Supreme Lord of Unfading Glory: who is the Highest Cause of the mind, who is space
and the wind, who is the Cause of All the luminous bodies (in the firmament), who is the
Creator of the rain, and the Supreme, Primordial Substance of the earth, who is the Object
of Adoration, with the gods, the danavas, the yakshas, and human beings; Who is the
Supreme Brahman That is seen by Yogins and the Refuge of the Knowers of
Brahman, who is the Creator of All mobile and immobile creatures, and their Destroyer
also; who is the Wrath that burns everything at the end of the Yuga; who is the Supreme
Soul; who is Sakra and Surya, and the Origin of All Attributes. And Krishna sought the
protection of That Bhava, whom men of knowledge, desirous of attaining to That which
is called the Subtle and the Spiritual, behold; That Uncreated One is the Soul of All
Causes. And Arjuna repeatedly adored That Deity, knowing that He was the Origin of All
creatures and the Cause of the past, the future, and the present. Beholding those two, viz.,
Nara and Narayana arrived, Bhava of Cheerful Soul, smilingly said unto them, ‘Welcome
are ye, ye foremost of men! Rise up and let the fatigue of your journey be over. What, O
heroes, is the desire in your heart? Let it be uttered quickly. What is the business that has
brought you hither? I will accomplish it and do what would benefit you. I will grant
everything ye may desire.’ Hearing those words of the God, they both rose. And then
with joined hands, the faultless Vasudeva and Arjuna, both of great wisdom, began to
gratify That High-Souled Deity with an excellent hymn. And Krishna and Arjuna said,
‘We bow to Bhava, to Sarva, to Rudra, to the Boon-giving Deity. We bow to the Lord of
All creatures endued with life, to the God who is always Fierce, to Him who is called
Kapardin! We bow to Mahadeva, to Bhima, to the Three-eyed, to Him who is Peace and
Contentment. We bow to Isana, to Him who is the Destroyer of (Daksha's) sacrifice. Let
salutations be to the Slayer of Andhaka, to the Father of Kumara, to Him who is of Blue
Throat, to Him who is the Creator. Let salutation be to the wielder of Pinaka, to One
Worthy of the Offer of libations of clarified butter, to Him who is Truth, to Him who is
All-pervading. To Him who is Unvanquished! To Him who is always of Blue Locks, to
Him who is armed with the Trident, to Him who is of Celestial Vision!’”
> Honestly, I have seen few Vaishnavas who are very knowledgeable and keep
> attacking Siva bhakta-s on internet. I have been personally attacked most
> times by Gaudiya Vaishnavas and also by Sri Vaishnavas. I talked to 2
> people running blogs proving supremacy of Siva and have seen all those
> quotes that you said in their blog. They both said that if one says Siva =
> Vishnu, our differences end here. Infact on author is a Rama bhakta like
> me. Both authors are not Saiva-s.
> Adi Sankara has also explained rudra in VSN, but you tend to ignore this
> Advaitin do not prove anything, nor Adi Sankara had written commentaries
> with sole aim to prove viShNu supremacy.
> Two contradictory verses are not contradictory if we apply nAhi nindA
> Yes, the verses you mention are quoted recently and in past, but in
> response to similar verses claiming Vishnu supremacy. I also agree that
> words like 'Krishna begged' are used. But I have seen these words being
> used by Vaishnava-s too. I know this is not right, but it happens.
> When there are proofs that claim superiority of Vishnu over Siva and then
> there are proof that claim superiority of Siva over Vishnu, then the point
> is that when one God is glorified and other is shown a lower status, it is
> to instill bhakti in us. Gods themselves teach us devotion by one God
> playing a role of devotee and another God playing role of Ishvara. As
> smArta-s, how can we denigrate status of any Gods. Both of them are equal.
> However, if someone is filled with hatred and the sole aim is to denigrate
> the status of Vishnu, I will strongly disagree with him and if necessary
> quote verses support Vishnu as supreme deity.
> Had there been no such topic, there would not have been such quotes. Nobody
> is stopping you from quoting verses. You are only getting replies. I have
> not seen a discussion here that continues when both parties accept Siva =
> You can quote praises on Vishnu as many times as you want and adore him to
> your heart's content, translate various stotra-s dedicated to Vishnu and
> post them here or give links. We will all enjoy. But when someone tries to
> prove supremacy, then what has happened is expected.
> This argument seems to go on and on. To be fair, I would not mind you
> replying, but will resist myself replying and retire from this discussion.
> Lastly, if, at any time, such verses are quoted by me in past, I ask for
> apology and take my words back. If you are hurt by my words beg for
> Hari OM
> Kind Regards
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