[Advaita-l] Who Slept Very Well? - Part IV
H S Chandramouli
hschandramouli at gmail.com
Sat Feb 8 00:47:11 CST 2014
Dear Sri Bhaskarji,
I am just asking out of curiosity and also perhaps it may help in resolving
the status of the issues raised by you. Are you basing your comments on the
views promoted by Swami Sri Sachidanandendra Saraswathi of Holenarsipur,
On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji
> Hare krishna
> Absolutely fantastic write up prabhuji. I enjoyed every bit of it and
> appreciate the clarity in your articulation. It is really a rare quality
> to put across one's thoughts in such a clear manner. Sri Chitta prabhuji,
> Sri Subbu prabhuji, your goodself are entirely in a different league, as
> Sri ram prabhuji said, you are certainly a guiding force to the advaita
> sAdhaka-s. IMO, your series can be saved in a separate folder and keep it
> in file section so that those who want to understand 'sushupti' / deep
> sleep state / prAjna from advaita perspective can study it. Kindly accept
> my humble prostrations for this meritorious work prabhuji.
> If you could permit me, I'd like to share some of my thoughts with regard
> to this state.
> Analysis of our deep sleep experience should provide us many aspects for a
> keen Vedantic student.
> 1. It is an advaitic experience without knowledge of the absolute truth
> - indicating that self-realization does not involve an experience of
> non-duality by shunning or shutting of the mind, since we are experiencing
> this all the time when we go to deep sleep state. No one gets up from
> deep-sleep with advaitic knowledge or with self-realization.
> > You are absolutely right prabhuji. Though there is absolute ekatva in
> sushupti, we donot realize that since there is agrahaNAtmaka avidyA in
> this state from jeeva perspective who is analyzing this state from waking.
> jnAna is required to realize this 'ekatva' in sushupti. And that jnAna
> cannot come in sushupti since there is an absence of upAdhi.
> 2. Self-realization therefore involves clear understanding of my
> advaitic nature irrespective of the presence or absence of duality.
> > Again I agree with this. It is clear realization or understanding it
> as a fact not as a thought as per your famous statement :-))
> That understanding comes only with the mind which is ready to learn via
> shravana, manana and nidhidhyaasana that scriptures prescribe. That is
> listening to the scriptures under a competent teacher who himself has
> learned this from his teacher, and reflecting on the teaching until there
> are no more doubts and contemplating on the teaching until one recognizes
> all the time I am that pure existent consciousness, one without a second.
> > agreed prabhuji..beautifully said.
> 3. In the deep sleep state, jnaani sleeps as jnaani and ajnaani sleeps
> as ajnaani.
> > Yes, I see myself as same ajnAni only everday after 'sushupti' :-))
> This is because the mind that has the knowledge or ignorance of one's true
> nature is folded with its knowledge to be in potential form. Hence jnaanam
> or ajnaanam of oneself is in potential form in the anandamaya kosha.
> > if the jnAni's paramArtha jnAna is just another 'data' in his mind,
> what happens to his jnAna when the jnAni suffers from alzheimer's disease
> or brain-dead coma?? I hope you are not saying here 'yard stick' to
> ascertain the jnAna of the jnAni is 'data' in his brain compartment and
> how actively he uses it. I think Sri Dennis Waite prabhuji had asked this
> question some years back.
> It appears from the discussion deep-sleep is being described somewhat
> similar to turIyam while in fact in the description of turIyam the
> scripture negates the deep-sleep state as part of mithyaa only.
> > I would have appreciated if you would have given those scriptural
> references. Anyway, one shruti says Atma has three avasthA-s and all the
> three avasthA-s are mere svapna..( tasya traya avasathA trayee svapnAH.
> But when the sushupti is seen from the sushupti avastha itself
> (anubhavAtmaka drushti) without bringing the waking mind's analysis,
> 'sushupti' viveka itself is enough to know our real svarUpa says clearly
> by shankara.
> The confusion can be due to the misunderstanding that pure consciousness
> involves objectless awareness as the description indicates. Even if one
> takes that operational definition, the deep sleep state is not objectless
> > again I beg to differ from this. The statement the deep sleep state is
> NOT objectless awareness' does not find any place in shankara
> bhagavatpAda's bhAshya...there is a bhAshya vakya that says that nAma &
> rUpa will be in avyAkruta rUpa in sushupti which will become vyAkruta in
> jAgrat and svapna. Sushupti is the state where there is no objects hence
> there is no adhyAsa there. Here Atman is sarvOpAdhi vinirmukta hence he
> will be in his sva-svarUpa.
> In deep sleep state we are aware of the homogeneous ignorance just as
> stated above with example of pitch dark room where we are aware of
> objectless-ness. In both pitch dark room and in deep sleep state we have
> an object for awareness; darkness in the pitch dark room and ignorance in
> the deep-sleep state.
> > again here also if we see this avasthA from that avasthA itself, shruti
> says he (prAjna) is sarvajna and sarva shakta..and he will be in his
> nirupAdhika svarUpa. In sushupti jeeva attains ekatva with brahma hence he
> does not have vishesha jnAna of nAma rUpa clarifies shankara. tasya
> AtmaivaH anyatvapratyupasthApaka hetOH avidyAyAH abhAvAt, here also
> shankara clarifies there is an absence of 'anyatva hetu avidyA' in
> For that reason only we can say - I do not see or know anything there in
> the pitch dark room or in the deep-sleep state.
> > No reason here is not ignorance but 'ekatva'. The hetu for not seeing
> the 'vishesha' is 'ekatva' clearly says shankara in bhAshya. And as you
> yourself said in one of your series, here Atma in sushupti, ashareeri,
> hence there is no taint of avidyA..ashareeraM vAva saMtaM na priyApriye
> Absence of non-existence of an object or objects is knowledge stated as
> anupalabdi pramANa. As a final
> note again - self-realization does not necessarily involves objectless
> awareness but recognition that I am awareness with or without thoughts or
> vRittis or object-thoughts. Hence, advaitic knowledge involves recognition
> that I am pure existence-consciousness-limitless with or without the world
> of plurality present since the plurality that is present is only mithyaa
> and therefore cannot disturb my advaitic state.
> > plurality presented here as separate 'plurality' is mithya, but when
> this plurality seen from its adhishtAna ( like seeing ONLY upAdAna gold in
> bangle, ring, bracelet etc. in nAma rUpa is satya only not mithya...karya
> jagat is nothing but vishesha darshana of that kAraNa and kArya cannot
> have its own existence apart from that adhishtAna kAraNa.
> > Once again, this is my understanding..you are welcome to disagree with
> me prabhuji.
> Hari Om!
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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