[Advaita-l] Pramana for adhyaropa apavada

rajaramvenk at gmail.com rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Mon May 13 06:01:45 CDT 2013

Is reflection jadam or only the medium? What is the view of vivarana, vartika and samkshepa on this? Madhusudana studies all of these and takes a position. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:14:31 
To: <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Pramana for adhyaropa apavada

It would be good to remember that whenever one person becomes bhogyam for
another, it is only the jaDa-aspect that gets the status of bhogyam.
Consciousness, by nature, can never become an object.  Even when we
consider the reflected consciousness, by naming it chidAbhAsa,  that is the
mind or intellect, still, according to Vedanta it is jaDam.  A manovRtti is
jaDam.  The reflection of consciousness takes place in the reflecting
medium the mind which is matter alone.That is why in Vedanta even the
akhandAkAravRtti, which has ONLY the Atman for its content, that is called
'brahmavidyA'  which dispels avidyA is held to bea jaDam  alone.  Only the
svarUpajnanam that is Brahman/Atman is the sole chaitanyam which, however,
never becomes an object.

In bhakti, the fourth type of bhakta alone is considered Supreme for he
never considers Ishwara / Brahman an object but his very Self which the
Lord acknowledges: jnAnI tvAtmaiva mey matam.

In the Br.Up. 1.4 we have the avidyAsUtram; yo anyAm devatAm upAste 'anyo
aham anyo asau' iti na sa veda, sa devanAm pashuH'.  Whoever considers a
devatA to be other than himself and vice versa does not know; he is verily
a  cattle in the servitude of the deva-s.  The Upanishad wants an
intelligent person to never become that and instead know the non-difference
and free oneself from being a bhogyam.  The nirvANaShTkam of Shankaracharya
reads: aham bhojanam naiva bhogyam na bhoktA chidAnandarUpaH shivoham
shivoham.   I am neither the enjoyment, not the enjoyed object nor the
enjoyer, but am the Pure Consciousness.

It has been clarified several times in this forum that wherever there is a
bhakta/bhakti/bhagavan difference, it is not Advaita of the Upanishads.  If
one says there is no difference then such a situation can prevail only in
the pre-death state but never in the moksha state.  Advaita is never taught
with that element in the paramArtha.


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Please read his mails. He talks about the implication of Ishwara enjoying
> jIvA in response to my position on Ishwara does not become an object in
> bhakti .
> Can jIvA be bhogyam for Ishwara in vyavahara? If so, does it become jadam?
> It is reflection of consciousness, my dear. Please consider the position of
> vivarna, vartika on bimba and pratibimba before answering one way or the
> other.

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