[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Wed Jul 31 13:13:09 CDT 2013
Namaskaram. For my work on bhakti in advaita, I asked a simple question "Is there an eternal loka in vyavahara as per advaita?" I know from textual sources that there is and vaikuntha (brahmaloka) is non-different from Vishnu (Ishwara). I just wanted to confirm from scholars. The simple answer is yes.
If someone asks what is time, we tell them that. It is intellectual bullying to say that time doesn't exist :)
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From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:09:05
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
Shree Rajaram - PraNAms
I learned during my sadhana not to judge people, but only focus about the issues that are being discussed. This is my scientific training.
From Paaramaarthika satyam, even Shree Sriddhara swami does not exist, leave alone his bhaashyas. Whether he understood the ontological differences or not is of no consequence for me. What is important is the what advaita doctrine subscribes and it is based on Vedanta as pramaana only - where satyam jnaanam anantam brahma cannot have any distinctions of any kind.
Now creation is beginning less - That statement is also only from the vyaavahaarika point since from paaramaarthika point there is absolutely no creation. This is both logically and scripturally true. neha naa naa asti kichana - sarva khalu idam brahma, etc. Brahman is kaarya kaaraNa vilakshanam - as discussed by Subbuji also. Hence he is beyond cause-effect relationships. Creation implies cause-effect relation.
Yet creation is beginning-less, since avidya is beginning less. Just as avidya can end by jnanam, creation also ends with jnanam since the cause for creation is gone. These are simple but profound statements to be assimilated.
As long as creation is there creator Iswara is there with ananta kalyaana gunas that you mentioned. Hence divisions of jiiva-jagat-Iswara which are there as long as ajnanam is there and are gone in the understanding of the absolute truth - then the absolute truth alone remains - That absolute truth is the one which is non-negatable at any time - that is only I am - pure existence-consciousness.
Hence the question posed:
"If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after pralaya, who will create as before
and award rewards of karma in previous kalpa?"
If there is a pralaya then Iswara is there in the yoga nidra position. All the previous karmas are there in potential form - That include kalpas etc. All these divisions are still within vyvahaara. Beginning-less is also a concept of time. But time is also not there in pure Brahman. In essence, as long as avidya and avidyaa janita vikshepa are there, all things you mentioned are there. The question posed was answered that every conceivable division is within vyavahaara only. Nirguna and divisionlessness is from pure Brahman point where no words can reach there - yato vaacho nivartante apraapya manasaa saH.
Now the question is not whether Sridhara swami understood or not, since it is of least importance, the question is only whether we understand the ontological differences between paaramaarthika nirguna Brahman va vyaavhaarika saguna Brahman. If we do not understand, then these questions keep coming.
Shree Rajaram, since further communication on this topic does not seem to have any utility, I remain.
I fail to see any connection to meeting eating swamis that you mention with vyaavhaarika and paaramaarthika. For me all these are irrelevant to understand the issues that we are discussing here.
From: Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
>We can rest assured that the modern meat eating globe trotting swamis know
>little about Advaitam compared to Sridhara. Do you think he did not know
>paramarthika or vyavaharika when he wrote so about Vaikuntha? I pointed out
>the basic flaw in Shree Subrahmanian's analysis of the usage of Vaikuntha
>by Sridhara, which you have not responded to.
>I repeatedly asked a basic question that exposes a fundamental flaw in your
>understanding of Advaitam, which has gone unanswered. Further discussion is
>meaningful only if you can answer this.
>"If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after pralaya, who will create as before
>and award rewards of karma in previous kalpa?"
>On Wednesday, July 31, 2013, kuntimaddi sadananda wrote:
>> >Please answer a basic question. "If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after
>> >pralaya, who will create as before and award rewards of karma in previous
>> Shree Rajaram - There is fundamental problem in the whole analysis. All
>> that you mentioned, Iswara with sarvajna, laya, pralaya, karma, jiiva,
>> jnaanam, ajnanaam -lokas, even puurva miimamsa, utta miimaamsa that include
>> Sreedhara swami bhaashya, Bhattas, praabhaakaras, miimaasa positions, and
>> anything else you name it, all and any divisions and distinctions which
>> differentiates in terms of sajaati, vijaati swagata bhedas - all are only
>> transactionally real. Noone disputes that. From paaramaarthika point -
>> existence-consciousness alone was there which has no distinctions of any
>> kind - ekam eva advitiiyam. Hence nirguna brahman we talk about refers to
>> that prajnanam brahma - that which is one without a second. Ontologically
>> paramaarthika satyam differs from vyaavahaarika satyam which again differs
>> form praatibhaasika satyam. The adviata teaching is from paaramaarthika
>> satyam. Confusion arises if try to mix these things - from what reference
>> distinctions you mentioned are valid. You may not agree with this, but
>> advaita categorically dismisses any distinctions of any kind from the
>> absolute point.
>> Just my 2c
>> Hari Om!
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