[Advaita-l] Apaurusheyatva of Veda

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Wed Sep 14 12:16:30 CDT 2011

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
> भक्त्या त्वनन्यया
> शक्यमहमेवंविधोऽर्जुन।
> ज्ञातुं दृष्टुं च तत्त्वेन प्रवेष्टुं च
> परंतप।।11.54।।
>  न केवलं ज्ञातुं शास्त्रतः, *द्रष्टुं च
> साक्षात्कर्तुं तत्त्वेन तत्त्वतः*,
> प्रवेष्टुं च मोक्षं च गन्तुं परंतप।
> >  I dont know what you have quoted above in Sanskrit except 11.54
> :-))...You can see your self above it is full of computer characters,
> atleast in future give English transliteration while quoting big big
> Sanskrit sentences.

I thought you were able to read Devanagari on your computer.  At least so
far you have not complained about this.  This is the bhashyam, in part, for
the BG verse 11.54:

// na kevalam jnAtum shAstrataH, draShTum cha sAkShAtkartum tattvena
tattvataH, praveShTum cha mokSham cha gantum cha parantapa//

I showed this vAkyam for its containing the word 'sAkShAtkArtum'.

> In the Br.Up.mantra on आत्मा वा अरे द्रष्टव्यः
> श्रोतव्यो, मन्तव्यो,
> निदिध्यासितव्यः..Shankara, while commenting, after
> explaining each of the
> elements involved there: shravaNa, etc. says: एवं हि असौ
> दृष्टो भवति, न
> श्रवणमात्रेण । (only when shravaNa, manana and
> nididhyAsana)..are performed
> does the Atman become 'seen' and not by mere shravaNa.
> >  If you are talking about AtmA vA are shrOtavyaH, maNtavyO,
> nidhidhyAsitavyaH etc. in br.up. mantra and shankara's comment on that 'na
> shravaNamAtreNa' etc. then it is quite evident that in that bhAshya
> shankara saying that ekatva of all the three i.e. shravaNa, manana &
> nidhidhyAsana would fetch us the brahma ekatva or samyagdarshana..this is
> quite acceptable that those who are not uttamAdhikAri-s have to
> subsequently undertake sAdhana-s like manana & nidhidhyAsana.  But dont
> you know shankara also says elsewhere that iha paravidyA vishaye,
> 'vAkyArthajnAnasamakAla eva tu paryavasitO bhavati' (is it in mundaka ?? )

This is when there are no pratibandhaka-s.  If they are present, even if
vAkyArthajnAna takes place avidyAnivRtti rUpa mokSha does not come about.
He may have to wait for one or more births  for the pratibandhaka to end.
BSB is clear about this.

> We can see the word 'dRShTaH' of the bhashyam and the words 'draShTavyaH'
> of
> the Up. and the word 'draShTum' of the Gita verse are in the same sense
> and
> context.  From the two bhashyam quotes it is clear beyond any doubt that
> for
> Shankara 'Atma darshanam' means nothing other than 'sAkShAtkara'.
> >  Here Atma sAkshAtkAra/darshanaM does not mean, seeing Atma as an
> objective reality or experiencing the Atman in a mind inert state like
> samAdhi.  anAtmani Atmabuddhi nivruttAveva..na tu brahma jnAne yatnaH
> clarifies shankara...

I have not claimed that it is an 'objective reality'.  I am aware of the
fact that Atma is not an object but one's subject. Despite that
clarification Shankara has happily commented upon the Gita verse: 'dhyAnena
Atmani pashyanti kechit AtmAnam AtmanA..' of the 13 chapter.  Here is the
translation of Sw.Gambhirananda for the relevant portion of the Acharya's

//13.25 Dhyanena, through meditation: Meditation means contemplation (on the
Self) after withdrawing into the mind with concentration the organs of
hearing etc. from the objects like sound etc., and then withdrawing the mind
into the indwelling conscious Self. Thus, from the citation of such
illustrations as, 'the crane meditates, as it were, 'the earth meditates, as
it were; the mountains meditate, as it were' (Ch. 7.6.1), it follows that
meditation is a constant and uninterrupted current of thought like a line of
pouring oil. Through that meditation, kecit, some yogis; pasyanti, realize;
the indwelling conscious atmaanam, Self; atmani, in (their) intellect;
aatmanaa, with the help of the internal organ that has been purified by



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