[Advaita-l] apaurusheyatva of veda-s

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Tue Aug 23 05:25:15 CDT 2011

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Shyam <shyam_md at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Pranams
> Some thoughts in response to some varied posts that have appeared on this
> thread.
> Also with regards to "we cannot look at the situations presented in the
> Vedas as having occurred in history at any point because somehow that brings
> in the prospect of human mediation in the Veda" - such need not necessarily
> be so, because just as the VedAs are eternal, the events depicted there-in
> have also faithfully recurred in every kalpa since beginningless time. In
> the words of Kanchi MahAperiyavA - "The same events are repeated kalpa after
> kalpa. According to our sastras, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the
> Bhagavata, the Dasavatara (the story of the ten incarnations of Visnu) and
> the Puranas are re-enacted kalpa after kalpa." Which may then explain why
> certain personalities occur in more than one place or context or that often
> the Upanisad seems to freely interpose, different names to the same person
> such as Vajasravas and Uddalaka, almost presupposing a literal and intimate
> familiarity, and the very same is then found referenced in the  Mahabharata
> in relation to Sage Dhaumya.
> Hari OM
> Shyam

Namaste Shyam ji,

While I have read in the Laghu Yoga vAsiShTha (in the BhuShuNDa episode?)
about the recurrence of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, I have some doubts
about the statement that ' The same events are repeated kalpa after kalpa.'
Maybe some more explanation is needed to understand this statement.  Does it
mean that Jnanis like Uddalaka whose name appears in the Upanishad take
birth in every kalpa?  If that is so will not the Upanishadic idea of Moksha
as 'yad gatvA na nivartante' (Having attained union with Brahman they do not
return' and similar several statements of the Gita, be rendered false?  On
several occasions across the bhashya Shankara, while dismissing a view,
says: 'in that case there will be the unacceptable situation of mukta-s
returning to samsara'.

I can understand the case of Ishwara taking several 'births' owing to the
need for establishing Dharma and vanquishing adharma: 'bahUni mey vyateetAni
janmAni...' (several births of Mine have occurred in the past....).  There
can be similar situations that lead to the Mahabharata or the Ramayana where
evil had to be put an end to.  But can this be extended to the case of
Jnanis of the Upanishads or other jnanis of our world ?  For example, in the
Br.Up. Janaka is shown as an aspirant after knowledge and Yajnavalkya, his
teacher, expounds the Vedanta tattva and at the end even declares 'abhayam
vai janaka prApto'si' (O Janaka, you have attained the Fearless).  If this
event were to repeat kalpa after kalpa there will be the eventuality of
Janaka, a mukta in one kalpa, having to be born as a seeker/samsari in
another and seek jnana through the same Yajnavalkya and attain 'abhayam'
only to be born again in another kalpa and so on.  This is just one
instance.  There are several others like Nachiketa getting enlightened,
Bhrugu (Tai.Up.) a seeker first and a knower later.

This is my genuine doubt upon hearing the above statement which you had
quoted a few days ago too.  Maybe I am not getting the purport of the Kanchi
MahAperivaya's words.  Would like to hear your clarification.

There is no doubt that the Veda undergoes no change kalpa after kalpa and is
revealed at the beginning of srishTi 'dhAtA yatha pUrvam akalpayat', the
same way it was in the previous creation-cycle. So, the contents of the Veda
too does not undergo any change including the personages and the

Best regards,

> --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Raghav Kumar <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > From: Raghav Kumar <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] apaurusheyatva of veda-s
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 6:36 AM
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