[Advaita-l] Saguna and Nirguna Sruti

Venkatesh Murthy vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 27 23:00:29 CDT 2011


On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
> But there is one more Nyaya known as Utsarga Apavada Nyaya.  There is
> a Sruti saying a Pashu can be killed for Yajna. One more Sruti saying
> animals must not be killed. The second Sruti means the animals can be
> killed in Yajnas like the first Sruti is saying. But other animals
> must not be killed. This is coming from Mimamsa.
>>  Kindly tell me what is the relevance of this nyAya with regard to the
> present context of our discussion ?? The point to be noted here is advaita
> does not side line the saguNa shruti-s and it does acknowledges the
> importance of these shruti-s in the upAsana, dhyAna, archanAdi mArga.  And
> strongly recommend it to the manda & madhyama adhikAri-s like us.
> sOpAdhika brahma & its upAsana have their own important place in advaita
> vedAnta and upAsana finds its place in jnAna kAnda of vedAnta as well
> since upAsana gives us the apEkshikAmrutattva phala which is almost near
> to jnEya brahma paramArtha jnAna.  Hence, shankara says in sUtra bhAshya :
> tatra etasmin advaitavidyAprakaraNe  'abhyudaya sAdhanAni' upasanAni
> uchyante.

The relevance of this Nyaya is this. Apaccheda Nyaya says when there
are two Srutis about the same thing the second Sruti supersedes the
first Sruti. But in Utsarga Apavada Nyaya when two Srutis are there on
the same thing the second Sruti will not supersede the first Sruti.
Both the Srutis must be taken with proper analysis. We cannot give up
first Sruti.

In Saguna and Nirguna Srutis we have to take the Nirguna Sruti to deny
Gunas not given by Saguna Srutis. The Gunas of the Saguna Srutis will
be valid we cannot give up those Gunas.

Brahman can be Saguna or Nirguna. If we do Upasana of Saguna Brahman
or Nirguna Brahman the result is same. The paths may be different but
the result is same.  12th Chapter of Gita explains it when Arjuna
wants to know who is better the Bhakta or worshipper of Akshara.

> But where is Sruti saying Brahman does not have Divine Gunas like
> Power and Omnisicience. Where is Nirguna Sruti denying Gunas of Saguna
> Sruti?
>>  nirguNa shruti does not deny the guNa-s of saguNa brahman, but it says
> para brahma is guNAteeta or guNa-dOsha vivarjita. While advocating
> absolute non-visheshaNa of nirupAdhika brahma shankara duly points out the
> sarvajnatva, sarva shaktitva of brahman as a creator, sustainer &
> destroyer while denying any other reason for this 'jagatsrushti'.

Agreed. Then Adi Sankara agrees Nirguna Brahman has also the
Sarvajnatva and other Saguna Brahman Gunas.  There is a choice for the
Sadhaka. He can go with Saguna if he likes or Nirguna.

> But the divine Gunas are not limited Gunas. They are unlimited. God
> has unlimited Power has unlimited Knowledge unlimited Size unlimited
> Bravery.
>>  yes agreed but point is we can not limit brahman's boundaries with ONLY
> 'sarva kalyANa guNa sampannatva' he is Ota-prOta in each & everything..the
> word 'sarvam' in 'sarvaM khalvidam brahma' indicates his 'sarvavyApakatva'
> irrespective of guNa-dOsha..we have to say he is everything and there is
> nothing apart from him, he cannot be everything minus something :-))

He is in everything but he cannot be explained clearly like this. If
we say Brahman is everything this will be difficult for Upasana
purpose. For Upasana purpose we have to say he is Kalyana Guna Sandra
only. For Upasana we cannot say he is everything and meditate on him
like that. It is impossible.



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