[Advaita-l] Antaryami Vishnu & anya devatas.
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 7 11:19:05 CST 2010
When it is said "Sarvam khalvidam Brahma" nobody, not even the Dvaitins, can say that anybody is left out of the "sarvam". The only thing is that the Dvaitins are imagining to keep themselves out of Brahman, because of their ego, which they want to nourish and do not want to see that abandoned.
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
--- On Sun, 11/7/10, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Antaryami Vishnu & anya devatas.
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 12:24 AM
On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:44 PM, krishna koundinya <cosmonautkk at gmail.com>wrote:
> Pranam to All,
> I recently joined the forum and found the
> discussions to be full of content. I 21 years old and am a novice in
> spiritual matters.I have some questions to ask to which I am sure to
> get good answers by the scholars here and I ask some of these from the
> dvaitin point of view.
> 1) It is said that Lord Hari is Sarvottama ( which he is for sure) &
> he is the antaryami ( as
> saint Annamacharya also eulogizes in his keertanas) and is also the
> antaryami for anya
> devatas( like brahma, shiva etc). Dvaitins explain that whenever he
> prays to other devatas (
> as in when Lord Sri Krishna prayed to Lord Shiva by taking Shiva
> deeksha from sage upamanyu or
> Lord Sri Ram prays to Lord Shiva) he actually prays to ANTARYAMI of
> that anya devata which is
> the lord himself, so taratamya is not viiolated. Are there any shastra
> pramanas for this ( for
> or against). please quote from vedas or only the " sattvic Puranas".
> I hope you understand
> why I insist on " sattvic puranas".
Without going into the taratamya, let us look at the issue this way:
One Brahman alone appears as all beings, whether devatAs or jivas. And that
Brahman is the AntaryAmi of all these beings. Whenever a jiva prays to any
devatA, it is this antaryAmi that is in this jiva too that is propitiated.
AkAshAt patitam toyam yathA gacChati sAgaram. Sarvadeva namaskAraH keshavam
pratigacchati. So, when Keshava incarnates as Rama, Krishna, etc. and in
that avatara prays to Shiva, etc. it is this one antaryAmi that is
addressed. The phaladAtaa is this one antaryAmi alone. This is not
unadvaitic. To consider the other devatAs as different from Brahman is the
fundmental mistake. It is one Brahman alone that appears with different
upAdhis as different beings, both devatas and jivas in this mAyA prapancha,
a creation that requires jivas and devata-s for its sustenance. When the
upadhis are disregarded, what we have is one Brahman.
There is no finality regarding what constitute saattvika and what taamasika
purANas. In the skanda purANa there is a mention thus:
dasha shaivapurANAni saattvikAni vidurbudhAH . vaiShNavAni ca chatvAri
tAmasAni munIshvaraaH. [ the ten shaivapurANas are sAttvika. The four
vaiShNava puraaNas are tAmasika. ]
I found this quotation in a book titled 'gunjAgarvabhanjanam' (sanskrit).
This book also says that there is no pramANa for the three types among
The typeification found in the Gita 14th chapter or 17th chapter is only
based on gunas. GuNas belong to prakRti. They are only upAdhis for Atma.
Atma is nirguNam. To separate the guNas from the Self is called Atma-anAtma
viveka. This is what is called sadhana. The success attained in this
process is called moksha.
> 2) I read in some Madhva forums that the Lord keeps the rajasic and
> tamasic souls ( I dont
> understand how soul has gunas) in delusion, and only sattvic souls are
> eligible for moksha.
> Are there any shaastra pramanas stating this condition..( Bhagavvam
> Ramana Maharishi says that
> everyone is eligible for moksha )..Also does the atman has form??
Any jiva can attain moksha only when the effort is forthcoming from that
jiva for coming out of ignorance. The Kathopanishat says: utthiShThata,
jAgrata, prApya varAn nibodhata. Arise, awake, approach the Knowers of
Truth and get enlightened. So, if this effort is not coming forth from any
jiva, that jiva has to remain in ignorance. The effort to get released is
what is called saattvic. The Lord does not 'keep' anyone in delusion; the
jiva-s themselves choose to remain so. If we want to admit the Lord's
instrumentality in this, it is only to mean thus: Depending upon the way
the jiva conducts himself, the Lord places him in that situation. There is
a shruti: Whomever the Lord wants to bring up, He makes that jiva do good
acts. Whomever He wants to put down, He makes that jiva do evil acts. This
shruti does not mean that the Lord is partial. It only means that the
jiva's karma and tendency decides what he does. The Lord is only an
overseer of all this.
Bhagavan Ramana's saying is subject to the jiva putting for the necessary
effort. He himself has said this also. If the jiva refuses to get released
from bondage, even the Lord cannot do anything.
Atman has no form. It is nitya, nirvikAri, sarvagataH. That which is
infinite, all-pervading cannot have any form. Any form will limit the
Atman. This is against the scriptural teaching.
Om Tat Sat
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