[Advaita-l] Knowledge, renunciation and varNASrama rules
suresh.marur at gmail.com
Thu Aug 19 02:15:54 CDT 2010
Dear Member participants,
I do not claim any knowledge of the "procedures" that are laid out for
sanyasa and who should or should not be allowed sanyasa. I however want to
argue from the point of the spirit of sanyasa and not the letter.
Occasionally, we get all caught up in procedure and miss the whole point.
The more I read this discussion, I feel we are beginning to lose the big
picture and debating syntax at the expense of semantics.
I am a grihastha and am pursuing advaita vedanta to get clarity of
understanding the upanishads and reconcile what the purport of the shastras
are. This is to the extent of finding the meaning of life and give it a real
foundation. The pusuit fo "worldly" life without the foundation of
spirituality makes it hollow. With spirituality and the background of simple
(samanya) dharma the same worldly life becomes fulfilling.
To me, sanyasa is not something that one can "decide" to do. It is like
asking should I be an engineer or a salesperson. The real question is what
is my "dharma" by which I simply mean, "What is that where I am at total
peace with myself and for which I will give up anything"? Posed such, the
question is not a question of my "right" to be an engineer or a salesperson
(or a sanyasi). Of course, everyone has the right to be whatever they want.
The question is do you REALLY WANT it from your being. At which point, it
becomes a choiceless transaction.
Sanyasa to me is a state of mind when there is nothing more important to the
individual than the pursuit of the truth and is ready to give up everything.
The giving up is again not conscious giving up. It appears to others that
the person is giving up. To the person himself, truth is of highest value
and giving up of "things" is actually dropping unwanted garbage. f this were
the state, I would argue that notwithstanding what anyone's or any
scripture's stated stand it, the person is ready for sanyasa and he WILL
find a guru who will guide him to brahmagyan.
All advaita is eventually a question of personal growth leading to total
annihilation of the ego and realizing "Aham Brahma Asmi" and living it every
moment. Sitting in agyana, we cannot ask the question on whether someone
else has the right to become a sanyasi. That question is for the individual
to ask. The only relevant question to ask is, "am I ready for sanyasa or
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan
> <svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I will repeat my quotation from sUtrabhAshya 3.4.20, as regards jAbAla
> > Sruti. Sankara bhagavatpAda says, "pRthag vidhAnAd anadhikRtAnAM".
> > The word "anadhikRta" here refers to those who do not have requisite
> > adhikAra for various vaidika karmA-s, but the related vidhAna pertains
> > to those who have the requisite vairAgya for renunciation. He does not
> > restrict its application to some anadhikRta-s and exclude others from
> > its purview. The Sruti (most powerful) and its interpretation through
> > the ages is clear enough. Adi Sankara bhagavatpAda knew exactly
> > what he was writing when he quoted this and his successors have
> > known exactly what it meant over the centuries.
> Namaste Sri Vidyasankar
> IMHO you are not correct in interpreting Adi Sankara's saying. He
> never says Sudras and Stris having Vairagya can take Sanyasa in 3
> 4.20 . This is your own saying. The question is If he wanted them to
> be eligible to Sanyasa he had good chance in 3 4.20. But he never said
> Sudras any where in 3 4.20. Why ?
> Moreover in 1 3.34 he says Sudro Yajne Anavakliptaha the Sudra is not
> fit to do Yajnas. In same sentence he says Vidyayam Api
> Anavakliptatvam Dyotayati. Sudra is not fit for Vidya also. Nyayasya
> Sadharanatvat. Because the same logic to not allow Sudra to do Yajna
> and not allow him to get Vidya. He does not have sacred thread. With
> sacred thread only Brahmin gets right to do Yajnas. Or he can straight
> away go from Brahmacharya to Sanyasa to get Vidya. in 3 4.20 Adi
> Sankara is saying other Brahmins who have sacred thread but not
> performing Yajnas can take Sanyasa. Your quick conclusion putting
> Sudras and Stris in same group with other Brahmins is not correct.
> Kindly explain your position.
> > You are, of course, welcome to your own conclusions of what you deem
> > unfit and wrong. If vidura and sulabhA were to stand in front of you, I
> > suppose you would hold one's Sudra birth and the other's gender against
> > them. The true jijnAsu would do much better in learning from them.
> I do not like pride. I am not proud. That is not my intention. I did
> not create Varnas and Asramas. But Varnasrama is God's creation. He
> says Chaturvarnyam Maya Srushtam. If someone does not like it means
> he does not like God's creation.
> > Regards,
> > Vidyasankar
> > ps. There is no SAnkara bhAshya on the jAbAlopanishat. Instead, there is
> > a citation of the jAbAlopanishat in the brahmasUtra bhAshya and in the
> > bhagavad gItA bhAshya. I would expect that there are citations from the
> > jAbAla Sruti in other upanishad bhAshya-s as well.
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