[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

Michael Shepherd michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk
Thu Nov 26 06:08:58 CST 2009


It seems possible that the dream state may even be instrumental in awakening

The other night I dreamed I was on a railway station where there were no
platform indicators, so no-one knew which train to take... I remember
thinking to myself very clearly 'If it's like that for me, who was born
here, and know the station but am still confused -- what can it be like for
That was sufficiently unusual a dream-thought to be remembered on waking as
some kind of subconscious 'indicator' of emotional movements. Normally my
dreams are so ego-centred that I don't have time for compassion !


-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
Sent: 26 November 2009 11:40
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

Dear Anbuji,

Sadanandaji said as follows:

/////   In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at lower
grade than emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my
transactions. That discriminative faculty is intellect only.   /////

I agreed with Sadanandaji as I too think that there is some involvemnt of
the Buddhi, even if occasionally, in the dream state. If you think that you
can interprtet your dreams absolutely correctly then it is another matter
but to me interpretation of dreams is not as simple as you have shown it to
be and I think it to be an esoteric subject by itself. Hope you know what
dream Lord Buddha's mother reportedly saw and what was the prediction.

Now coming to Buddhi,  the Buddhi and the Mahat Tattva are
 somewhat synonymous in the sense that Buddhi is the individual intellect
whereas the Mahat Tattva is the Univrersal intellect. It is part of the
Karana sareera. on leaving the Manomaya Kosha the individual soul or purusha
leaves behind the instrument of "Manas" or the mind but still retains the
other two koshas and the Buddhi transcends the Manomaya kosha.

The treatment of sankhya is interesting and it did not talk about Ishvara as
Ishvara is asiddha (ie. His existence cannot be proved). The Sankhya says
that everything other than the soul is Prakriti but Lord Krishna gave us the
advanced concept that this purusha (of Sankhya)  is the higher Prakriti.
Lord Buddha also said somewhat similarly.

Anyway let us agree to disagree on the point on the involvement of Buddhi in
the dream state and let us go ahead with the other topics.


Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

Dear Sunilji,

The word 'budh' means to
 wake up.

Knowing a table from a chair is not exactly discrimination but knowing a
rope is not a snake, is!   This is the kind of discrimination that is
assigned to the buddhi.

The physical dimensions of space and time is determined by the buddhi.  In
dream where nothing is physical we have a warped space and time.  Let me
give you a couple of examples.

I once dreamt that I was going to school to write an exam even though in
actual life the last time I set my foot at a school was many decades ago!
It so happened that I set out for the school just a short distance away well
early before the exam is to start in the morning.  Lo and behold! When I
reached the school it was 5.00 P.M. and the exam was over and there was no
one!  I immediately realized that I failed in the exam, a shocking
experience!!  Luckily for me I had gone into deep sleep putting an end to

Again, I once dreamt that I was running away from a guy with only one leg
who was chasing me!  And he always caught up with me too and I tried to run
faster!!  It did not occur to me that a lame person could not run and I
should stop getting frightened.    Actually the moment you might try to
discriminate the dream will end right there and you will be awake! And when
it  did occur to me the dream ended and I was awake.

Such is the manifestation of the negative bhogam we suffer with false
failure in exam and needless running away from a lame chaser!

There is unpredictability reigning supreme in the dream.

Should I do such and such thing?  It is the buddhi that tell me yes or no.
Thus the buddhi is the true kaarmic agent.  You are aware that karma needs
the sthoola sareeram  that exists only in waking state.

All predictability remains in the domain of
 the intellect.  The sharper it
is the better is the predictability.

It is only because of this buddhi that we could ever apprehend our real Self
but by turning it inwards.

I suppose when Sadanandaji says that in dream the buddhi is in lower grade
(?!) he means it remains unmanifest.

If you are interested a buddhist url has a detailed study on the word buddhi
that you might want to read.

By the way you are right in saying that the sookshma sariram contains the
kaaraNa sariram.  Actually this sookshma sariram (consisting of
panchendriya, the big mind as I explained before, and the prana) is the one
that transmigrates and not just the kaaraNa sariram as you


--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
> wrote:

From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 2:25 AM

Sadanandaji - Pranaams

You said  ////   In dream state, not that intellect
 is not there - it is at
lower grade
than emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my
transactions. That discriminative faculty is intellect only.  ////

Thank you for your opinion and I agree with what you said.

In fact the sareeras can be divided into three types and these are the
Sthula sareera, Sukshma sareera and the Karana sareera. The latter two  are
also expressed together as Sukshma sareera. I understand that the Karana
sareera goes to the next birth.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya


--- On Tue, 11/24/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
To: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 8:08 PM

Sunilji - PraNAms

Manas and buddhi are part of
 subtle elements. They are not separate - one is the discriminative faculty
and other is the emotional faculty. Anupravesha statement of the upanishad
is accounted by Shankara as entering subtle body to bhoutica shariira. The
whole sublte body travels from one loka to the other leaving only the gross
body. vijnaana kosha is superior to the manomaya kosha - Tai Up.
says - the consciousness shines more in the intellect first - budhyaaveva
bhaaseta swaccheshu pratibinbavat - Atma bodha.

In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at lower grade than
emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my transactions.
That discriminative faculty is intellect only.
Even in the waking state, the intellect is not in full potential - that is
what veveka emphasized as one of the requirment for realization - That
intellect to differentiate the nitya and anitya has to be develped by study
and saadhana.

I am not
 familiar with sankhya and miimamsa texts to give any reference - sorry.

Hope this helps

Hari Om!

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