[Advaita-l] Meditation (dhyAna), knowledge (jnAna) etc. in Sankara's advaita

[Bhaskar YR]

sAshtAnge praNAms Sri Vidya prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

For those who are wondering where this quotation is from, it is
the bhAmatI vyAkhyAna (by vAcaspati miSra) on Sankara's
bramasUtra bhAshya 2.3.39.

bhaskar :

Yes, prabhuji, it is from bhAmati vyAkhyAna...you know very well the reason
for not mentioning the names in my mail.  Anyway thanks for directly
bringing in the name of later vyAkhyAnakAra-s here.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

Bhaskar, I appreciate the idea that you want to go back to the
original bhAshya-s to understand advaita-tattva. However, I think
you are not reading the bhAshya-s in full.

bhaskar :

I dont know how you have come to this conclusion...But I do agree, I've
completed shankara bhAshya only on 6 upanishads, gIta & sUtra 3 adhyAya-s
through my guruji...Still chAndOgya, ItarEya, kEna & taitirIya
pending...But I have studied on my own all the prasthAna trayi bhAshya
atleat twice...And whenever I get doubt on any bhAshya vAkya during my
self-study, I do immediately call my guruji & get it clarified..If you
think it is not sufficient for my presence in this forum for discussion
kindly let me know.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

 In your criticism of those who say a samAdhi experience is indispensible
for Atma
jnAna, you are going to the other extreme and denying that any
AtmajnAna is possible through the medium of a samAdhi
experience.

bhaskar :

Kindly pardon me prabhuji, my intention here is not to belittle the
efficacy of samAdhi experience but to find out the PYS role in shankara's
advaita vEdAnta.  If you say, yOga as a separate shAstra & experience of NS
as per PY is capable enough to lead one to Atma jnAna, I can happily rest
my case..But problem arises (for me) when it is linked with shankara
vEdAnta.  I do agree that I have said samAdhi experience donot remove
avidyA coz. it is Sankara who says that wakers from nidrA & samAdhi suffer
from avidya.  If my reading is wrong pls. rectify.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

You also seem to insinuate that anyone who talks
of yoga and samAdhi has misunderstood Sankara and that they
have deluded themselves if they think they have attained true
AtmajnAna thereby.

bhaskar :

I dont know where I said all these things..I've been merely questioning the
role of yOga (as advocated by PY) & samAdhi (as described in YS) in
shankara vedanta..nothing else prabhuji..As far as I know, I have not
passed any derogatory judgements on those who attained *true Atma jnAna*
through the experience of *samAdhi*..If anywhere I implied like that,
kindly accept my apologies.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

And you claim to base this opinion on the bhAshya, but I put to you that
this is only through a selective
reading of the bhAshya.

bhaskar :

prabhuji, I cannot comment on this..but I can say I can quote only relevant
portion of bhAshya where it is contextually relevant...I cannot quote the
whole portion of bhAshya..coz. practically it is impossible..can we type
whole bhAshya while discussing about br.bhAshya 1.4.7 & 1.4.10 prabhuji??

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

For example, let us analyze the sUtra + bhAshya + vyAkhyAna
pertaining to your quotation..

bhaskar :

Thanks for taking trouble to do that prabhuji...I am ever indebted to you.

Sri Vidya prabhuji:

The sUtra reads, "samAdhy abhAvAc ca". It occurs in the kartR
adhikaraNa, immediately followed by the taksha adhikaraNa.
Incidentally, Sri Sreenivasa Murthy, all your questions are
answered in the bhAshya on these two adhikaraNa-s.

The first point to note is that the word samAdhi is used by the
sUtrakAra himself. You must ask yourselves, why should
bAdarAyaNa use such a loaded term in the sUtra? After all,
samAdhi has a long history in the yogaSAstra.

bhaskar :

I am not able to understand the line of your argument here..it is as good
as asking why krishna used the word *sAnkhya* instead of jnAna in gIta when
sAnkhya (as a system) has a long history..

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

Going on to the bhAshya, what are the vishaya vAkya-s that Sankara
bhagavatpAda quotes here? They are,

AtmA vA are drashTavayaH
Om ity evaM dhyAyatha AtmAnaM
so 'nveshTavyas sa vijijnAsitavyaH

Note, it is Sankara himself who refers to this upanishad
sentence where the sUtra refers to samAdhi.

bhaskar :

Yes, there is a reason for shankara to quote this...as you know, this
adhikaraNa is meant to determine whether jIva is katru or not...Here pUrva
paxi in all through the 7 sUtra-s (this adhikaraNa has 7 sUtra-s) try to
argue that bhuddhi itself is katru & Atman is bhOktru ( as per sAnkhya) so
there is no need to ascribe katrutva directly to jIva..For this shankara
wanted say that jIva has the katrutva..for this shankara quotes above
bruhad maNtra..I think here vishaya vAkya is to determine jIva's
katrutva..it has nothing to do with samAdhi & related experiences..Here
shankara trying prove his point by saying shAstra enjoins sravaNa, mananAdi
sAdhana to Jiva coz. he is katru, if jIva is not katru then all these
sAdhana-s go waste.. I dont know how this sUtra can be supportive to prove
PY's influence on vEdAnta. And as you know, the same discussion continues
in takshAdhikarana where it has been concluded that jIva's katrutva is
temporary and it is kEvala upAdhi nimitta..In my reading I dont see any
relevance of PY & samAdhi in these two adhikaraNa-s...


I shall stop here prabhuji.. with your permission I shall share my thoughts
on the remaining portion of your mail on Monday...In the meanwhile I admit
that ofhand, I dont recall the reference of your quote about
siddhi-s...Anyway, I will search :-))..if you dont mind you can tell me the
reference..so that I can avoid searching :-))

Your humble servant
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar