[Advaita-l] Bhagavad Geeta 4.7, 4.8

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Mon May 1 06:10:40 CDT 2006

--- Annapureddy Siddhartha Reddy <annapureddy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sadanandaji,
>     Pranamamulu. Thanks for your extensive comments. You made these
> two
> statements:
> "I bring in Iswara, who is different from me as the creator of this
> universe, which is
> different from me." and
> "Yes, Iswara can save us by his infinite compassion, if we let Him."
> These appear to me to be contradictory. When the very notion of Isvara
> is a
> figment of our imagination, how can Isvara save us. Any help can only
> come
> from us, from the purification of our mind -- is it not? I am
> comfortable
> with this position, but is this the position of traditional Advaita
> Vedanta
> too?

Shree Siddhartha gaaru,


First, please recognize that according to advaita, even bondage is a
notion and therefore saving from bondage is equally a notion.  However,
when one takes bondage as real, the saving is as real as the bondage. 
When I take the world as real, Iswara is as real as the world that is
seen.  Only when I am awakened to the higher state of consciousness, I
recognize that the world that I see and the creator of this world that I
see and I the seer are all nothing but undifferentiable chaitanya
swaruupa.  That is true only after realization or paaramaarthika
dRishhTi.  In the introductary posts of Mandukya, we discussed that in
the realm of relatives the knowledge is valid.  Hence, yoga shaastra is
equally valid where saadhana becomes very important part of the process
of realization.  Krishna declares - which is called charama sloka -
sarva dharmaan parityajya .... moxam iShyaami.. Completely surrender to
me giving up all the dharmaas and I give liberation.  This is not
contradictory to advaita.  Complete surrenderance can occur only once
that is when one gives up all the notions of individuality.  That can
happen only when one realizes the truth.  Hence, sanyaasa or giving up
ones notions is yoga.  Hence, Krishna says of all Bhaktaas Jnaani is the

Hence my statement "Yes, Iswara can save us by his infinite compassion,
if we let Him." 
yetu sarvaaNi karmaaNi mayi sanyasya mat paraa .... One who surrenders 
all the actions at my feet, meditates on me without any other thoughts,
then I will take him beyond the ocean of samsaara. 

Please remember the nation of Iswara becomes figment of my imagination
only when I have realized that all duality (subject-object distinctions)
are figments of imaginations - and not before.  When that understanding
(not as a thought) but as a fact occurs then all the questions and
contradictions resolve.  I must say even the concept of 'advaita' also
dissolves. Until then one has to understand the nature of goal (advaita)
and strive for purification of the mind to recognize the advaita as
factual.  The confusion arises if one switches reference states from
which the discussions are made - paaramaarthika to vyaavahaarika.

 Any saadhana involves dvaita - saadhaka, saadhya and saadhana - called
tripuTi are involved.  Goal is advaita - one without a second.  Mind
needs to be purified (all vAsanas have to be purged)for the knowledge to
 be internalized.  Hence, the scripture says - 
arE shrotavyaH, mantavyaH, nidhidyaasitavyaH - Listen to the scriptures,
contemplate on the truth expounded by the scriptures until one is doubt
free and meditate on those truths until they becomes internalized - that
is Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman - brahma vit brahmaiva bhavati. 

Until then contradictions are inherent in the saadhana itself. Saadhana
should continue until all the contradictions are resolved into oneself,
the Brahman.  There are no other short cuts.  'Truth is a pathless
land", but to recognize that as factuality, one should have a purified
mind. For purification, yoga (karma, bhakti and jnaana) are essential.
As long as we have no confusion in terms of what reference the
discussion is made, there is no problem. 

> Also, certain verses of the Bhagavad Geeta, like 4.7 and 4.8, seem
> untenable
> if we
> consider Isvara as only an imaginary entity. I am comfortable with
> this
> position too, but
> I wonder how traditional Advaita Vedanta would have defended itself
> against
> criticism from other schools (as to which is a faithful interpretation
> of
> the Bhagavad Geeta).

Please note that Shankara has written Gita Bhaashya.  Gita and yoga are
not contradition to advaiata.  Adviata includes all dviata.  It is
adviata inspite of the dvaita - or Non-duality inspite of duality - Gold
is one in spite of many ornaments. 

Hope it is clear.

Hari Om!

> Please let me know if I missed something. Thanks.
> A.Siddhartha.
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org

More information about the Advaita-l mailing list