[Advaita-l] Logic and shastra

Mahesh Ursekar mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com
Mon Oct 24 07:08:00 CDT 2005

 Let me address your question first for which my contemplation has some
answers (if I have understood you right):
 >> Why should it change the onlooker's perspective of the realized.
 It doesn't really. But the reverse is not true. The realized person sees
the truth. This is akin to a person with sight (realized person) conversing
with a blind person (you or me). Or an adult conversing with a child.
 And that leads me back to my question. I can fully understand that one
cannot judge a realized person based on his or her interaction with a
another due to the above. However, what happens when the guru is alone. Both
my previous examples relate to such situations. Should they affected by
thoughts and feelings that we common people have? Taking another example of
Swami Vivekananda - he prayed to the mother once at Belur Math when
preparations were being made for the Durga Puja (I think) - 'Mother, please
give me a fever so that the next day, I will not have to supervise the monks
because if I do, I will burst into anger if I even see a little think faulty
with their work'. Naturally, being a perfectionist himself, this was to be
expected. But as a realized soul, not being able to control anger? How does
one explain that? Krodh, Moha, Lobh, .... are these not the things we are to
get rid off? Or Sri Ramakrishna yearing for disciples? Isn't that desire -
another thing one needs to be rid off on the path to realization?
 Humble pranams, Mahesh

 On 10/24/05, praveen.r.bhat at exgate.tek.com <praveen.r.bhat at exgate.tek.com>
> praNAm,
> I'm replying with my basic viewpoint, others may have better answers.
> Mahesh-ji wrote:
> So, in effect, if I understand it right, the realized soul does not have
> as
> association with his/her BMI and sees it as a "third person" entity, quite
> different from who s/he is really is. Or in other words, there is no
> feeling
> of ego, no sense of doership of any actions. The thoughts, feelings,
> actions, reactions of the BMI are taking place but there is no feeling of
> them being done by the realized person on his or her own. Is that correct?
> praveen:
> More or less, I would think so. But more than seeing as a "third person",
> my
> understanding is that there's no individualization per se. As Ramakrishna
> paramhamsa said, its difficult for a realized to come down to the level of
> human ego (that individualizes) and interact. But then again, RP may not
> be
> a good reference since he followed all paths there are and talked from
> various angles at various times. I quote him since I know you to have read
> him a lot. For that matter, Ramana is also said to have shed tears on
> looking at Rama's or Krishna's photo. In short, the realized is brahmaN
> (brahmavid brahmaiva bhavati) and has no participation/ownership in
> feelings, etc.
> Mahesh-ji wrote:
> But there are times when realized souls feel sorrow or yearnings.
> praveen:
> Not true. There is no individual soul principle for a realized, no
> association whatsoever to say that there are sorrows. The feeling is seen
> in
> the realized by the observers due to their shades of nescience.
> Mahesh-ji wrote:
> For example, Sri Ramakrishna after his realization was troubled emmensely
> at
> being in the company of worldly people and yearned for true devotees to
> come
> to him.
> praveen:
> As I understand, the paramhamsa walked and taught various paths. He was
> looking for satsanga to spread the knowledge he had. Personally, I don't
> think his realization has anything to do with it. Same with Sw.
> Vivekananda.
> There's something else that has been bothering me for long! I don't know
> why
> anyone's realization should have anything to do with the world viewing
> anything. Consider a person merged into the brahmaN. Merged, as in
> figure-of-speech, but factually knowing/realizing that s/he's brahmaN. Why
> should it change the onlooker's perspective of the realized. S/he was
> brahmaN earlier too and now knows. So everything from the onlooker's
> perspective should remain same.
> I don't know if this has helped any.
> shivam shaantam advaitam,
> --praveen
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