[Advaita-l] Re:Exit of soul (Badisa)

ramesh badisa badisa66 at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 30 15:16:11 CDT 2005



“The jivatma (reflected consciousness,) identified with the sukshma-sarira leaves the physical body in death and assumes a new body”


“soul refers to the sukshma sarira and the reflected consciousness only”


Badisa: To the jivatma, I am saying soul, because, it is easy to type. So, where ever the soul is referred, the existence of subtle body to it is automatically understood. When I say that that soul moves from one place to another, it needs to be understood the movement of the soul along with subtle body. To this effect, I have even quoted the Gita reference 15/8 to show the movement of soul with its elements of subtle body. When I say the exit of soul upon death of gross body, I mean the exit of soul with subtle body. Since you are saying the same thing as mine in different terminology, I do not see any clash between yours and mine. I did not come across the terms like reflected consciousness in Gita, BS etc.     


*So from this, it is very clear that the The sukshma sarira is finite, whereas the original consciousness is infinite. So this proves what I said earlier" 


Badisa: When you are referring subtle body being finite, then you have to mention the finite or infinite nature of reflected consciousness only but not original consciousness. Because, original consciousness is not concerned with subtle body. It makes good sense when finite or infinite nature of reflected consciousness is mentioned. I say that the reflected consciousness is also finite. Please let me know your opinion on this.   


“When a jivanmukta dies, he attains videha mukti. What videha mukti means is that he merges into the all pervading Brahman (like pot space merging into total space). So the jivanmukta's subtle body does not travel after death, it dissolves into the subtle pancha bhutani”


Badisa: This is what the Upanishads say. I agree to it. Before dissolving of the subtle body in pancha bhutani, can you say that the state of gyani is in sampurna mukti? Please let me know. 


“Only in the case of an ajnani, the subtle body travels”


Badisa: Not the subtle body alone please. But, along with the soul (that is, reflected consciousness, as per your understanding). In other words, reflected consciousness + the subtle body will travel at the time of death of gross body.


“So krama mukti means that the ajnani gets self knowledge in brahma loka and then the ajnani's subtle body is dissovled there and he becomes free there.*” 


Badisa: The agyani gets self experience at BL. I agree to it. Because, it is declared by the scriptures. The subtle body at this point does not get dissolved, as you contended, but it only will happen at the time of pralaya. Other wise, in the absence of subtle body (as per your understanding), and on account of self-realization, the state is nothing but the essentially the reflection of original consciousness only. This means divine. That means in the absence of any attributes, it should not have limitations for any thing. Do you agree for this? Please let me know.


“The atma or Brahman is understood only by the subtle body;”


Badisa: It is not clear. By saying the subtle body, are you implying the reflected consciousness + the subtle body together? Or subtle body alone? Please let me know. 


“From the above you are implying that there are multiple jIva-s which One after another as an individual self identify themselves with the Absolute 


Badisa: The plural word, jivas or atmas or souls can be also found in the Phala Adhyaya of BS.




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