[Advaita-l] Re:clarification on Vedantasutra

Ramesh Badisa badisa55 at hotmail.com
Thu May 13 09:24:17 CDT 2004

Dear respected members, Namaste.

>bhaskar :
>I've some problem in accepting this prabhuji.  sadEha/jIvan/sadyO mukti is
>the highlight of shruti pratipAdya shankara's advaita siddhAnta prabhuji.
>Shankara in all through his bhAshya-s categorically says that advaita
>paramArtha jnAna is to be realised in this very life & absolute salvation
>is  not an after *death* state.

Badisa: Sri Shankara emphasized others to achieve knowledge of divine 
experience in this very life itself. Because, there is no guarantee of 
getting a human body in the next life. So, he is asking people to utilize 
this body for divine realization now itself. He is very well aware of the 
fact that salvation can be achieved in two different ways. By emphasizing on 
divine realization in this very life itself, he is suggesting for immediate 
salvation, as krama mukti takes lots, lots of time (life cycles).

Even if you take shruti it is also
>emphasising how the socalled *body* is immaterial to the brahma jnAni.

Badisa: Sri Shankara is a brahma jgani, meaning that he experienced the 
divine. Right? Then when sri Shankara empahsized for divine realization in 
this very life itself, then how sri Shankara is able to say this experience 
to people if the so called physical body is immaterial? Divine experienced 
person understands that he is not the physical body, but utilizes this 
physical body to teach the knowledge of divine to others. Therefore, divine 
experienced person won't say that this so called body is immaterial. He 
maintains it well, but won''t pamper it, while ordinary people pamper this 
physical body out of ignorance. See how the great persons of India after 
divine experience used their body for spread of knowledge of divine. So this 
body is not immaterial for anyone. Afterall, out of many forms of living 
beings on this earth, human body is the only one that is given the capacity 
of divine realization. After divine reralization also, the gyani needs food 
to maintain his body, evacuates bad materials from body,  drinks water, 
sleeps at night and do all his normal activities. After divine experience, 
he won't say, "hey physical body, when I am not you, why should I feed you" 
etc. He does all activities, but because of divine experience he knows that 
he is not the doer, but only a witness for all the activities. That's where 
he differes from ordinary people. If the body is immaterial for a gyani, 
then why eats at all, or drinks or sleeps? When sruti says, it has different 
stand point.

>Kindly refer br.up. tadyathAhinirlvayanI valmikE mrutA pratyasthA
>shayItaivaM Evedagam sharIram SEtEthAyAm *asharIrOmrutaH prANo brahmaiva
>tEja Eva!!  Further, it is more clear when shankara writes commentary on
>this upanishad, yasmAt na hi tasyAbrahmatva paricchEda hEtavaH kAmAh santi
>tasmAt *ehaiva brahmaiva san brahmApyEti na sharIrapAtOttarakAlam*.  It is
>evident that brahmajnAni after the dawn of ultimate knowledge will not come
>under the influence of upAdhi-s, he realises that HE was/is/will be
>brahman forever in entireity.

Badisa: Sir, I request you one thing. When you give quote from any text, 
please give its complete reference also, so that others can refer it easily. 
Other wise, lots of time may be spent on it, searching. Coming to the point 
about the influence of upadhi on gyani, the divine experienced person 
understands that he is not the body, but the soul. But he still lives in the 
same body till the rest of the life. But he also has urges for eating of 
food, sleeping, drinking. But his urges are not like ordinary people which 
are instinct for the urges. Therefore, all urges are well under his control. 
When he feels hungry, his consciouness will dawn at the physical level 
immediately. He won't shout if food is not served him immediately, but 
others will do instinctively. when he feels sleepy, his consciouness comes 
back to body level. He will also have body consciouness. For example, if he 
gets any hurt physically, he also feels pain. But he won't express anger, 
unlike ordinary people. There is no such rule that a divine experienced 
person will not feel pain or won't get burnt when he puts his finger in 
fire. So long as he has the physical body, senses, he is also subjected to 
all feelings. But because, he experienced divine, he knows that he is not 
the body, and thus faces the trouble without showing any anger or hatred. 
This is where a jeevan mukta differs from ordinary people.

So, for a jnAni who has upAdhi rahita jnAna
>hardly identifies himself with dEhAtma bhuddhi.

Badisa: A gyani achieved upadhi less knowledge by experience. Correct. But 
he still lives in the very same upadhi until his prarabdha karma becomes 
zero. He experiences all activities of his body, but inside in his heart he 
knows he is not this physical body, but soul. This expereince of divine 
gives him the power to over come all pains and pleasures, meaning that 
worldly things won't bother him even though he is in the world. In other 
words, he won't reject the world, but he wants to be a part of the world, 
the way he could. But this association won't deter him from his divine 

brahmavit brahmaiva
>bhavati so says shruti, His jnAna / realisation of his true nature  is not
>kAlAntara or janmAntara state.

Badisa:  brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati. I agree. But, one has to contemplate 
over this, when it is applied. Not at the level of jeevan mukta stage.

This is what shankara further  says in
>sUtra bhAshya *samyagdarshana kAlamEva tatphalaM sarvAtmatvam darshayati*.
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