vijaykartik_2004 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 9 04:42:23 CDT 2004
The purpose of my message was not to initiate any new chain of arguments on this subject.
I wish to clarify first that I did not write my message from the position of any particular mutt. So the references to your math ,your friends etc seem to be based on a misconception of my position.
Given the nature of this historical issue, an objective conclusion can be made only by relying on books, copper plates, other evidence which were in public knowledge even before the controversy arose. Any book, copper plate etc, even if supposedly 300 or 400 years old , if brought to public knowledge after such a controversy arose, could never be taken as objective and authentic.
There is no doubt that one should respect any institution or individual which/who plays a major role in spreading Vedic Dharma (so long as there are no baseless antiquity claims.)
Shining examples of such great personalities are Ramana Maharishi, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Sivananda- to name a few.
Looking at this issue from another angle
1) if indeed a Mutt had its origin from the great Sankara
2) if indeed a Mutt had an unbroken line of succession from origin till date ( 2500 years or whatever)
3) if indeed a Mutt commanded the respect and reverence of people as a Sankara Mutt all those 2500 years,
4) if indeed a Mutt always had solid evidence on dates of gurus-birth,sanyasa,Samadhi etc all those years,
- Why should a public debate arise as to whether it is authentic Sankarite or not,
- why should one be urged to study books and copper plates to believe in the Mutts antiquity,
- why at all should this debate arise in the last 100 plus years if people had known well this Mutt all the time.
An objective thinker would find the logical answer easily.
Ravishankar Venkatraman <sunlike at hotmail.com> wrote:>
>The origin of the Kanchi Mutt is a highly debatable issue. While there is
>lot of visibility in the last nearly 100 years, the Kanchi Mutt seems to
>have been unknown before that.
As also the origins of other mutts which seem to have been established by
the same Adi Sankara across several centuries (with 3 of them 5 centuries
before the advent of Christ and one after 7 centuries after Christ). How
many Sankaras should have existed?
>Oral traditions on Sankara Mutts which have come down centuries had no
>references to a Sankara Mutt in Kanchi.
How many oral traditions are you talking here?
>While these traditions have recognized even mutts like Badrinath, Dwaraka
>which have had gaps in their lineages these oral traditions do not
>recognize the Kanchi Mutt which is supposed to have unbroken succession.
That is one oral major tradition, which is certainly very strong. My
respects to the followers of this tradition.
>If you look at books written by eminent men till 100 years back, same is
>the case .Even in the later writings of Jawaharlal Nehru,
>Dr.S.Radhakrishnan, Swami Sivananda, Ramakrishna Mutt one would find only
>the four Mutts. These people had no special reason to do so.They were only
>recording what tradition said in this matter.
Why do not you look at other books written by people who lived at least a
century before even the so-called Kumbakonam mutt was established (in
1800s), including traditional accounts on Sri Sankara's life?
>Today the information regarding unbroken lineage of Kanchi Mutts gurus,
>their dates of birth, sanyasa, samadhi etc are presented in minute detail,
>but somehow the origin of the Mutt itself is not confirmed by oral
>traditions or any independent evidence.
Unfortunately this tradition is from Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra Saraswathy
Swamigal (acknowledged to be the biggest mystic in several centuries by all
Sankaracharyas and other yogis). This is at least 400 years old.
>Many in the present generation may not be aware that todays Kanchi Mutt
>was only known as Kumbhakonam Mutt even till 1960 or so.
That should not matter. What matters is how much Kanchi mutt works for the
preservation of Vedic Dharma.
>Over the last few decades, references to Kumbhakonam have been carefully
That is interesting, how did they manage that? They seem to have done a bad
job, because today we are talking about this.
>One cannot find any branch Mutt of Kanchi established during the 2500
Can you find evidence that Dwaraka mutt was established before 2500 years?
Please try selling your idea that Adi Sankara was born after Christ to His
Holiness Dwaraka Sankaracharya and let us know what His Holiness thinks
>One is told that the Kanchi Mutt shifted to Kumbhakonam during the Carnatic
>Wars in middle of 18th century and stayed there till early 20th century.
Some of your friends in the internet think that such a war did not happen at
all. You should talk to them before you find which one of you is right.
>It is difficult to accept how a Mutt which is supposed to have been adorned
>in an unbroken succession by most revered saints for 2300 years ( till then
>) could suddenly be forgotten by people just because it shifted to
>Kumbhakonam due to a war that lasted hardly for 20 years.
Please do not accept. The reason for forgetting does not seem to be strong
>One would also hear that so-and-so book talks of Kanchi Mutt or that a
>copper plate found in the last century refers to Kanchi Mutt.
>However, one should remember that antiquity of an institution should be
>borne out by solid tradition and not by untested pieces of evidence. This
>is not a matter to be proven by producing evidence.
Who asked you not to test any piece of evidence? If you know of only one
copper plate, you should look for more. Where there is a will, there is a
way. If you want to be dogmatic, any piece of evidence will not mean
anything to you.
>In the modern world ,with media power and political influence it is not
>too difficult to start a totally new institution and get an antiquity stamp
>in less than ,say, fifty years.
Do you run a consultancy for this?
>I do realize that many readers may find the above comments shocking. Some
>readers may try to reject or contest some part of the above in one way or
>the other, but the underlying issue will remain- that the Kanchi Mutt s
>claim of antiquity and Sankarite origin will not stand the test of an
>objective scrutiny .
It is futile to contest with a dogmatic person. Before you talk anything
logically, please go and check your math and see what tradition holds, and
whether the tradition adds up correctly, and whether to quote tradition for
Sorry everyone, I am not rude by nature.
I will not enter into an argument, but I cannot see people coming with an
agenda to do mudslinging. If you have the scientific spirit, please go and
verify (even now it is not too late) any claims of Kanchi mutt, before you
come and write anything. You will be able to see a different dimension to
the great preceptor Sri Adi Sankara's life.
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