[Advaita-l] An adhyAsa challenge

bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Fri Jun 13 02:57:23 CDT 2003

Bhaskar PrabhujI,
>  praNAm prabhuji
>  Hare Krishna

>  Prabhuji, kindly pardon me due to time constraints I am forced to skip
some of your mails on prama-bhrama & various other topics.  Nowadays I am
spending lot of my officially paid man hours on vedAntic discussions :-) I
dont have system at home, otherwise, I'd have been more interactive in this
list... Anyway, pls. see my comments below :

This world is chEtana-achEtanAtmaka.  chEtana literally means one who
When this chEtana is in a body, that knower is called a jIva. So there is
only one chEtana or one jIva in a body,  it is also referred to as atman,
and for clarity jIvAtman,  or the individual soul.

>  Then why krishna says in gIta ahamAtma gudAkEsha prabhuji, who is
kShEtragna in kShEtras prabhuji is it paramAtma or jIvAtma?? Individual
soul/jivAtma/knower is a *knower* only till the intution dawns on the Atman
to be sought after, but once it is realised this knower with individuality
will be verily that parabrahman who is free from all evils.  That is why
chAndOgya says sadEva soumya idamagraasit..EkamEvAdvitIyam.
mahAnArAyaNOpanishad says that: "aNOraNeeyAn, mahatO mahIyan, Atma guhayam
nihitOsya jantoh" who is this Atma prabhuji??  and in
bruhadAraNyakOpanishad Sage Yagnavalkya clearly declares that : He that
serves a separate deity - thinking "HE IS ONE & I AM ANOTHER - is IGNORANT;
he is like a quadruped for the gods in heaven: Pls. note prabhuji here sage
yAgnAvalkya not talking about outside entity apart from residing self

Where as karma and jnanEdriya are external organs to this jIva, sAkshI is
an internal organ to this jIva. jIva has three bodies - sthUla, linga,
sthUla stays till death.  Linga stays till liberation. svaroopa stays for
ever. So, when the knower gives up his sthUla body, he still has linga and
svaroopa bodies with him. sAkshI is the knowing internal 'organ'  of this
svaroopa-body or

>  Here prabhuji, by saying svarUpa sharIra will be there forever, you are
under the impression that *sharIra* is permanent.  But advaita says, so
long as the soul (Atma) of man/woman is encased in three body containers
i.e. Physical body (Stula SharIra-present in our waking state), linga body
( Sukshma sharIra -present in our dreaming state) and svarUpa body (kAraNa
sharIra - present in our deep sleep state i.e. sushupti) sealed tightly
with the corks of ignorance & desires he cannot merge with absolute. ( this
reminds me swamy parthasArathy words :JEEVATMA-MAYA = PARAMATMA &
PARAMATMA+MAYA = JEEVATMA) But prabhuji dont you think, it is the
*appearence* which is a product of ignorance??  *The appearence* I mean,
The adjudicator who gives a decision that "This name and form with three
different bodies is real, this world is real etc. etc." namely the
"INTELLECT" but that itself is incompetent, coz. it is triggered out of our
aham pratyaya.  since every single body in the world is made up of five
sheaths (pancha koSha), all the five sheaths put together answer to the
name of body. such being the case, how can the world exist, how can u see
external objects with name and form apart from the body?  has  the world
has been ever witnessed by anyone without a body?( body here i mean all
three bodies what you mentioned above) So, it is apparent that The
SELF/knower who is consiousness is alone real & nothing else.  All
so-called body, senses, intellect, knowledge which is manifold, is only
ignorance/avidyA.  The Advaita philosophy says this ignorance is unreal,
since it has no existence of its own as this avidya does not have any
material cause, apart from the consiousness which is the SELF, just like as
the unreal jewels (names and forms) made of gold have no existence apart
from the real gold".  If this consciousness be with form then it is logical
for us to think that world and god would be so too.  But is the self be
formless, then how and by whom are forms to be seen?  dont this question
arise in our mind prabhuji?? you tell me.

>  The dualists claim that if the individual soul be surrendered to God,
the soul beget the abode of god etc. etc. But prabhuji my question is can
there be a Self of a self? How many selves can there be as you said only
one chEtana in a body, then where is the place for paramAtma prabhuji? But
according to adv. what really is the self? That alone is the Self which is
nitya, shudda,budda, mukta svarUpa, which remains over after the
elimination of all that is not the Self- the stUla body, the linga body and
so on; whatever is eliminated in this process is not-self na-iti, na-iti so
says vEdas.  If it be said that in this process the remainder is the
svarUpa body with svarUpEndriya, and paramAtma is the controller of that
svarUpa body, it only means that the process of elimination has not been
carried out to the very end as it should be is it not prabhuji; if it be so
carried out, then it will be seen that the svarUpa body is not the true
knower/chEtana- that great self is alone the TRUE self, the remainder in
the completed process is the great self; it follows that we got hold of
something else, and not the REAL SELF i.e. paramatma.  Prabhuji, I think
all this confusion is due to the many meanings of the word Atma, which
means the Self; it means the body , the senses, the vital force, the Mind
etc.etc. ( you can see the recent discussion on gaudapAda kArika - Atman
deluded) this is very clear that after elimination of all upAdhis it can be
proved that the individual soul / jIvAtma is mere a hypothetical entity.
But the verse of the Gita as I quoted above Krishna clearly says "  I am
the self residing in the hearts of all', makes it clear that God is Himself
the real self in all; it is not there said that He is the Self of the self.
(Atmasya Atma).

>  This is what advaita's understanding prabhuji.  There is only one self
which is EkamEvAdvitIyam.  World is not its creation it is its

>  Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>  bhaskar

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