Fwd: Fw: ADVAITA-L Digest - 6 Sep 2002 to 7 Sep 2002 (#2002-226)
Jaldhar H. Vyas
jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Mon Sep 9 09:30:42 CDT 2002
On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, yogafarm wrote:
> To Jaldhar: Neti Yoga is the system we developed
So you made it all up? Advaita Vedanta is about the conquest of delusion.
If you're just going to make things up why even bother giving it some
fancy eastern name?
> (primarily for
> westerners who were unfamiliar with advaita)
And after your neti yoga, they will still be unfamiliar with Advaita
Vedanta. (Advaita incidently is an adjective not a noun.) You are doing
westerners an injustice by assuming they need special treatment.
> and have taught for some
> years. The "neti" ("not this") refers to the "No-Mind" experience --
"Not this" does not mean what you think it does.
for an explanation.
> involuntary samadhi -- around which this system of jnana yoga is based.
We've recently had posts on this topic too. See:
and other posts in the threads "Samadhi" and "Tenets of Samkhya".
Once again, samadhi doesn't mean what you think it means.
> "Enlightenment" we define as "realizing what it means to be Brahman /
> Atman / God That I Am / the Self." In short, it is our definition of
> "Self-realization." Once the Self is realized -- by having the No-Mind
> experience AND by understanding and accepting what it means -- one can
> spend many years then learning the process of converting that Knowledge
> into a living system of understanding that leads to moksha (moha + kshya
> -- "freedom from delusion") or mukthi (which is often quoted as
> "liberation" -- see below).
I don't see based on your description what you are doing to become free
from delusion. Rather this no-mind state seems like pure escapism, an
attempt to just block ones ears and sing la-la-la rather than deal with
> In our system, the "inner core" is not "nothingness," but
> "no-THING-ness." It is the same as the Great Void of Buddhism, it is
> zen, Mu, satori, nirvana, samadhi and all the other names that I have
> learned which describe the state of One without a second.
You are mixing words from all over the place that have specific meanings
The state of one without a second isn't no-thing-ness. There is exactly
one thing. I doubt very much the Buddhists believed that.
> It is Pure Consciousness -- or, as the great mahavakya asserts, "Prajnam
> (I'm not sure of the spelling) Brahmam" ... Consciousness is Brahman.
> Pure Consciousness can reveal Itself (it is, of course, omnipresent) at
> both convenient AND inconvenient times for any number of reasons.
Consciousness is always present even for the stupidest person. There is
no question of it revealing itself or not. The goal of Advaita Vedanta is
to remove the false superimpositions upon pure consciousness. This cannot
be a hit or miss afair but must be complete and permanent.
> turiya, the underlying, eternal Reality. Its single, defining quality
> -- as I have been taught and directly experienced -- is the lack of an
> "observer" (ahamkara, ego, fear, etc.). It is, as I've said, One
> without a second.
No you said it was no-mind.
> Tat twam Asi.
Again the words you quote have no relation to what you're trying to say.
> For that reason, alone, it is "Pure." Consciousness always IS; but it
> is not always Pure ... obviously.
Not according to Advaita Vedanta. Consciousness always is pure. It is
ignorance (avidya) that causes false superimpositions upon it. That
ignorance is dispelled through the same means of knowledge (perception,
inference, scriptural testimony etc.) as any other field of human
endeavor. So you can see not having a mind is a rather severe disability
to Advaitic sadhana.
> >From our perspective, there actually is no "liberation," as advaitans.
> For that would assume there is something to be liberated FROM, no? But
> the basis of advaita -- again, as I have learned it -- is that maya is
> delusion / a mirage / unreality ...
Maya is avidya. So rather than unreality, a better translation would be
> So liberated from WHAT? Hence, "moksha": "Freedom from deluson."
> Involuntary samadhi requires knowing what to look for in infants, but is
> patently obvious in setting hens.
Somehow I think we can do better than the state of a chicken.
> But, indeed, we EACH enter samadhi
> involuntarily several times each day: In the "bridge time" between
> waking & sleeping; and, again, between sleeping & waking.
That samadhi is worthless because it doesn't last and it is outside our
control. If you look at the threads I mentioned earlier, you'll see that
samadhi is really quite orthogonal to the goals of Advaita Vedanta. At
best it gives you a stable platform to continue the contemplation of
Brahman without distractions. (Assuming you still have a mind to
> Regarding soma: Some believe soma is the sap of a rare plant;
> believe it is a mythical remedy. Still others hold it to be the
> equivalent of amritha, the Nectar of Immortality.
Then others are wrong.
> Amritha is believed by some to be churned from the ocean; by others, to
> be released from within during special meditation. But in fact, amritha
> is also being continuously manifested from several amulets which carry
> pictures of Sathya Sai Baba and Shirdi Sai Baba, and which were blessed
> by Sathya Sai Baba (immediately after which they began manifesting this
> divine-tasting syrup more than 30 years ago).
Amrit is the necter of immortality. So a simple test if the liquid is
Amrit (and not sugar water or something as I suspect) is to see if the
orphans are immortal or not.
My mother is an ardent devotee of Satya Sai Baba since 1967. The local
Sai group has had bhajans at my apartment. I appreciate Sai Baba for who
he is. but that doesn't mean I accept every extravagant claim his
followers make. It's the equivalent of the snake-handling pentecostals in
your neck of the woods. There is a lot of true faith mixed with a lot of
baloney. You should be a bit more skeptical about things you read.
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
It's a girl! See the pictures - http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
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