Gayatri Mantra and Agarwals

ravi chandrasekhara vadhula at YAHOO.COM
Tue May 28 22:39:35 CDT 2002

Dear Vishal,

Judging by your last name, you belong to the Agarwal
jati.  Agarwals were suryavamsha Kshatriyas who became
Vaisyas shortly after the beginning of Kali yuga, upon
request of Goddess Lakshmi to Maharaja Agarsen.  Still
they are Dvijas and are allowed to undergo Upanayana
and recite Gayatri.  So you say you are a Sudra, but
how ? Either you committed an act that required
ex-communication, your forefathers from 3-4
generations before stopped upanayana hence you would
be a Vaisya-bandhu - perhaps which there would be a
prayaschita, or you married a Sudra/non-Hindu/avarna
Hindu. If you are involved in a pratiloma vivaha
(married a girl of a higher caste)-I dont know what
your varna status would be. I have heard that
statement about pouring molten lead in Sudras' ears if
they hear the vedas, but is this real? During yagnas
people of all varnas attended also temples, where
vedas are chanted, but there is no "punishment" meted
as such to Sudras, perhaps other list members can shed
some light on this.  Besides sudras have rights and
obligations also but different than Dvijas (from Hindu
Dharma at

Pranam, Ravi Chandrasekhara MD
--- Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <balasr at YAHOO.COM>
> [CC'd to Vishal since he may not be on the list]
> I hope you reconsider. I have enjoyed your
> informative
> posts a lot.
> Regarding walking cemetry et al: That text has been
> quoted not just by sha.nkara, but also by Ramanuja.
> I
> think we don't need to take it literally. I don't
> think it was ever taken literally.
> Sha.nkara argues for adhikAra only for karma. In the
> same section of the brahma sUtra bhAshhya, he also
> makes it clear that jnAna is accessible to one and
> all, including to those outside the varNa system.
> For advaitins, jnAnAdeva tu kaivalyam. Also
> sureshvara
> very clearly puts it as AtmalAbhAt.h paro lAbho
> na-asti-iti munayo viduh.
> That jnAna is accessible to one and all is affirmed
> by
> the modern representatives of sha.nkara also. If you
> disagree with sha.nkaras teachings in this regard,
> it
> would be best to live and let live. Why get agitated
> over this? As long as you can find some information
> in
> the list members posts, is that not enough? This
> list
> probably has one of the highest signal-to-noise
> ratios
> among lists of its kind.
> Re: Vishals web-site. I encourage list members to
> access it. There is a wealth of information on
> Indian
> philosophy/philosophy of history. There are also
> articles on politics. Whether you agree with the
> political pieces or not does not reduce the value of
> the other articles one bit. They are splendid and a
> useful resource.
> Rama
> --- Vishal Agarwal <vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> > Please unsubscrible me from your misogynist and
> > casteist list.
> >
> > Since I am a Sudra who has not only heard
> > recitations from all the Vedas,
> > but also recites them, please go ahead and come to
> > my home town to pour lead
> > into my ears.
> > After all, I am just a 'walking cemetry'.
> >
> > Vishal
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Wed May 29 00:22:01 2002
Message-Id: <WED.29.MAY.2002.002201.0700.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:22:01 -0700
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: ken knight <hilken_98 at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Value of Prayer
In-Reply-To: <000a01c20636$350f7000$03000004 at anand>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- K Anand <carex at VSNL.COM> wrote:
> The fault lies with
> the common man like us.

Namaste Anand,

It does indeed.

>Sometimes I
> this all because we do not
> that much respect and give that much authority to
> our scriptures as do the
> followers of Islam or Christianity. They really go
> by the WORD!!!

>Who is to blame!!!

I would like to follow the concept of
Word...vAk...with you in the world's traditions but I
am jumping in here to pick up on one word that you
use: 'blame'.
This is a highly dangerous word, so popular in our
contemporary Western culture, which will fragment
families, social groups and nations and line the
lawyers' pockets with gold while 'Rome burns around
them.' Blame will always land on 'the other'.
Children blame parents publicly, in the media, for
their own problems ( there are many similar examples),
every accident must have a guilty party. Remorse and
guilt are demanded rather than their parent: Love.
We need to inculcate a tradition of responsibility,
'ability to respond', which starts here, in the world
as I perceive it. To remove ignorance in the world
starts with 'me' in whom is the ability to respond to
the urge to act that also arises in me.  If we do that
the Guru will appear; without a doubt.

Having worked with Interfaith groups for some years, I
have seen that there has been one common problem,
people of all traditions do not study their own
scriptures and prefer to speak from opinion rather
than the knowledge enshrined in tradition. All of us
need to rectify this, again in ourselves first.

It is not easy. The dominant forces in society are are
rajasic and so we are dominated by an 'culture for
instant satisfaction'. Study of scripture, time for
prayer, contemplation or meditation, these are not
going to fit in with such a dominant lifestyle.  We
need the rajas to effect change but without the wisdom
which brings in the sattva to flourish, we will sink
back into the tamasic state and blame others before we
get our next fix of rajas...often through some
catastrophe or difficulty.
St Francis wrote a prayer..'Make us a channel for Thy
We could write that also,'Make us a channel for

Hope that I have not given too much of a diversion

Ken Knight

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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