New member introduction: Ganga Karmokar

sharon tang crystalkundalini at HOTMAIL.COM
Sat Oct 7 05:35:35 CDT 2000

Namaste and good Morning -
once again let us start with what you do not agree on... whatever your
perception of reality is that is fine whatever your illusions of truth are
that is fine...  Then go into the Silence... and KNOW the

Agreed.  But notice the order in which you put these steps.  You cannot
proceed to step two or three until you have mastered step one.  The
problem is that while truth is one, falsehood comes in many
varieties.  For instance in truth you are not "Ganga" and I am not
"Ganga" but I am not to a much greater degree than you are not!

A: there was no time limit on any of these... time again is only based in
the realm of duality and mind... but yes first you go as far as you can with
what you are not... whatever is transient cannot be the Source... you look
and watch and disregard... until you day or night suddenly the light goes on
so to speak and you sit bold upright and KNOW you are not the body, nor
mind, nor emotions... this is witnessing... when you see them as concretely
what you are not then you move on....
when ganga is used or i or me there is no perception of an ego form in
that... but in the dualistic world of relativity if not used you would not
understand the language... therefore since dealing with someone that is
still in the reality of duality these words are used... but in truth they
have no meaning they are only once again lines of division which have no
bearing on reality... in my world so to speak only the Constant is
foremost... like the depths of the Ocean... when speaking the waves occur on
the top of the water... but in the depths it is quiet and motionless... if
you look from the top of the water there is much motion and commotion but
looking up from the depths you see merely ripples... it is of no
>I speak from direct experience not the hearsay of books and writings...

How is reading a book or listening to the words of a Guru not a "direct
experience"?  One uses ones eyes and ears and feels and thinks when
reading or listening just as much as in any other situation.

A: Because the Gurus words and reading of the sages words are only
hearsay... it is their direct experience that they are writing or speaking
of.... if someone tells you that they are in pain do you experience it?
NO... you only think you know what they are speaking of intellectually...
but you are not feeling nor understanding the degrees of what they are
feeling.... nor do you know for sure what they are saying is true... you can
surmise it is true from the expression on thier face... but you cannot know
100% unless you are in their shoes.... see the difference....
you may or may not trust the words of the Guru.... and their words may
prompt you to either accept them unconditionally and act on them.... or they
may spur you on to action to prove them wrong... whatever it is they are
doing something.... although the words do nothing it is your perceptions
which act or re-act... when you have had enough of the relative world then
you seek answers...

>scholarly knowledge affords you nothing... except more to have to let go

Compared to what?  I'm not claiming Advaita Vedanta is not a waste of time
just that of all the possible wastes of time, it is the least wasteful :-)

Btw, a common mistake people make is to treat Advaita as a noun.  It is an
adjective which in this case modifies Vedanta.  By itself it is no more
meaningful than "loud" or "blue".

A: you pursue it as a philosophy... a way of thinking... and memorizing and
learning it in and out textbook wise ... just see the gist of it... go into
the concept not the words.... drop all the ideas and ideations and then
proceed to find out the truth for yourself... it is possible... if you have
nothing to gage it on and the experience is there... and please do not
mis-understand when speaking of experience... it is the closest word in
duality to what must be said... but it is beyond experience of mind and
thought and the senses... once all the notions have ended and personality
drops and identity with emotions etc end then surrender all... and a shift
will take place... in a split second all you have thought to be true will
shatter.... and Reality will be there in your face so to speak... Absolutely
Concretely with more substance than the maya realm.... but do not quibble
with words on this.... no matter what is said in duality you cannot explain
That Which Is the Source or known as Self.... Self is a word that is not
correct it gives a wrong connotation... Self implies an ego form or separate
distinction... It is ALL that exists... but it is not a self of ego.... and
if formless is stated it is taken as another type of classification of
form.... and it is not... that is why you can never give this experience to
another... from then on it is all Emptiness in the Maya realm... but that
cannot be conveyed to anyone... The transient realm has dropped its
meaning.... from then time and division are only words without substance...
you know the words of duality but reality has for ever changed... no longer
the transient is paramount... it receeds.... only the Constant Is.... once
again the maya realm is seen but the vantage point is now from the constant
not the transient....

 > Advaita is not an intellectual pursuit... it is the realization of the
>Source of Being....

How does that realization occur?  If we look at the history of India there
have been many philosophies that have arisen, some them have also had
interesting theories about the nature of reality.  But the reason they
have fallen by the wayside and Advaita Vedanta is still around for us to
discuss today is that Vedanta offers theory _and_ a practical way to
achieve that theory.

A: so why haven't you achieved it? because instead of self and Self
introspection you waste the time on intellectualizing... spend the time in
contemplation first and then comes meditation which is the silent mind...
and once the silence is reached then you surrender ALL.... then you will
KNOW the truth of Advaita... it will be direct and Pure Awareness.... when
ego ends... and in the silence the world ends... how to explain what
happens? It happens the duality ends... form is transcended... and That
Which IS remains... it must remain... it is ALL that exists... if maya
realms end it ALONE IS.... once resting there moksha is obtained... as there
is nothing to be free of... the ideas which held you bound cease... the
realm of maya is all mind created.... and you see the truth of existance and
why it is empty in nature... and from then on what is the difference if the
world is or is not.... this is liberation.....

i do not speak big on the internet... what i speak of is
>from direct experience... trying to be stated in the dualistic language of

It is precisely because language is so slippery we have to try and be as
precise as possible.

A: precision is great in the relative world but in trying to explain what is
beyond what supports and sustains you can only approximate.... the words are
useless in themselves... it must be experienced first hand... only the words
can spur one on to finding to discover to un-cover the truth of existance by
self introspection and contemplation....

i will not engage with you in intellectual debate as it affords nothing...

It doesn't afford everything but there is a vast difference between not
everything and nothing.  Viveka, the ability to discriminate between the
real and unreal is the highest virtue of Vedanta.  Ignorance is the worst
evil.  To learn and know and then transcend that knowledge is one thing,
but to not bother knowing in the first place?  That's a waste of the gifts
God has given to mankind.

A: Nothing is ever wasted.... once again to debate is only a waste of
time... spend the time wisely in self introspection... Neti... neti....

i will not engage with you in intellectual debate as it affords nothing...

It doesn't afford everything but there is a vast difference between not
everything and nothing.  Viveka, the ability to discriminate between the
real and unreal is the highest virtue of Vedanta.  Ignorance is the worst
evil.  To learn and know and then transcend that knowledge is one thing,
but to not bother knowing in the first place?  That's a waste of the gifts
God has given to mankind.

A: Once again to debate solves nothing... teaches you nothing as Advaita is
nothing to be learned but that which should be expereinced first hand.... go
into the silence... start with self introspection... neti... not this....
neti.... not this and proceed to dis-cover and un-cover That Which Is...

>Love and Blessings on your search... i only joined to say that the truth is
>possible to know absolutely...

Why?  Those who abide in silence have no need for mailing lists or indeed
any other human activity.  But all of us (yourself included) are engaged
in other activities than silence.  So we need to take a good look at what
we are doing and why.

A: you are right there is no longer any need what-so-ever... so why? it is
compassion.... it is out of love.... there exists only silence... for you
perhaps there is still the thoughts stirring... now it is only silence...
when questions are asked answers appear in consciousness that is all....
otherwise only silence is.... there is no motive here... moving with the
waves of consciousness and karma plays out... that is all....

not as a philosophy but as Reality... i do
>not quote any books why to promote hearsay? you can only speak of what you
>know directly....

How is reading your email any less hearsay than reading a book?

A: it is still hearsay for you... until you dis-cover the truth of Being it
is all hearsay... but when you do it will be YES! Yes! Yes! for you will at
that point KNOW ABSOLUTELY the Truth from conjecture of mind.... and your
experience and that of sages long ago will be identical... for in the
relative existance of maya there are as many shades and perceptions of truth
as there are people... but in Realization the experience and the Truth is
One.... that is why a realized person can distinguish another realized
person... because the experience and meeting beyond the minds is the same...
there are no longer any illusions that remain... only Pure Awareness

Love and Blessings

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