Can iishvara pull out a jiiva from bondage?

Sankaran Kartik Jayanarayanan kartik at ECE.UTEXAS.EDU
Thu Mar 30 16:19:49 CST 2000

On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Charles Wikner wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM> wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, jkcowart at wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed, as for particular scriptures, Krishnamurti said: "Truth is a
> > > trackless land."
> >
> > So why should we believe Krishnamurti :-)  Those who reject scriptures
> > inevitably end up creating their own.
> John did acknowledge the author of the quote - a habit to be
> encouraged! - but you dismiss it solely on account of that author.
> This is just vitaNDa.

Ramana Maharshi has at times contradicted J. Krishnamurti, which is good
reason not to take JK seriously.

While JK preached effortlessness in the *method* to obtain liberation,
Ramana was quite categorical in stating that effort must be made during
the sAdhana. It's only when the Self is realized that effortlessness is
achieved; not before, not otherwise.

This is clearly brought out in Ramana's reply to a question raised by a
devotee on 11-1-1946 (`Day by day with Bhagavan,' by Devaraja Mudaliar):

A young man from Colombo, Ceylon, said to Bhagavan: "J. Krishnamurti
teaches the method of effortless and choiceless awareness as distinct from
that of deliberate concentration. Would Sri Bhagavan be pleased to explain
how best to practise meditation and what form the object of meditation
shall take?"

Bhagavan: "Effortless and choiceless awareness is our real nature. If we
can attain that state and abide in it, that is all right. But one cannot
reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate meditation. All the
age-old vAsanas (inherent tendencies) turn the mind outwards to external
objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inwards
and that, for most people, requires effort. Of course, every teacher and
every book tells the aspirant to keep quiet, but it is not easy to do so.
That is why all this effort is necessary. Even if we find somebody who has
achieved this supreme state of stillness, you may take it that the
necessary effort had already been made in a previous life. So, effortless
and choiceless awareness is attained only after deliberate meditation.
That meditation can take whatever form most appeals to you. See what helps
you to keep out all other thoughts and adopt that for your meditation."


> Regards, Charles.



bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam

Archives :
Help     : Email to listmaster at
Options  : To leave the list send a mail to
           listserv at with
           SIGNOFF ADVAITA-L in the body.

More information about the Advaita-l mailing list