Jeevanmukti and Advaita

Devendra Vyas dev_vyas74 at HOTMAIL.COM
Mon Sep 20 22:19:12 CDT 1999

indeed ,both the worlds the external as well as the internal are presently
unknown to us and unknowable by us as long we view them through the mind(or
maya)only by transcending the mind can we know the essential nature of
internal as well as external reality-which is actually the same nondual
reality.this one fact is most difficult to understand--there is only one not
many,nonduality is free from many and 'rest of the things' and many is free
from nonduality --he who sees the wave does not see the ocean and he who
sees the ocean does not see the wave(even saying that'he who sees the ocean'
brings in duality:but we have to use this terminology for convenience).it
can be said that jivanmuktas are free but are bound to see duality as long
as prarabdha persists,but are no longer deluded by person after he
knows that a mirage is mirage will still see the mirage in the desert but
will not be deluded by it.also
in the case of avtaras like sriramakrishna ,sriramakrishna himself has said
that a trace of maya-or 'ripe ego' was maintained by him till his mission on
earth was not over i.e.,maya in name only---devendra.vyas.
>From: nanda chandran <vpcnk at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
>Subject: Re: Jeevanmukti and Advaita
>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:44:11 PDT
>Vaidya questions :
>>if the person realsises His essential "non-dual" nature, he
>>is fully aware that HE ALONE EXISTS - rest all is only mAyA. However,
>>are teachers of advaita - if they have attained advaitic reaisation of
>>ONENESS whom do they teach it to? if they have not realised, are they
>>teaching what they do
>>not fully understand?
>Leaving alone Advaitic concepts, normally we identify ourselves
>with our body. If we're hurt in any part of the body, the phrase,
>"I'm hurt" is used and makes sense.
>So when you're applying medicine to the hurt, does the question
>"how do I apply medicine to myself", arise?
>And please be clear that "Tat tvam asi", doesn't mean that you,
>with your individuality is brahman. "I'm all there is", is
>itself used in a relative sense only. Brahman is devoid of
>individuality and that implies that to be brahman, all that we
>can predicate of it of ourselves, with our individuality, has
>to go. That's the reason the bhagavatpAda uses the term, "residue"
>in dasashloki to indicate the Atman.
>And there's no "rest" that's mAya. The duality that you perceive
>in the empirical world is what's mAya. The "rest" exits and is
>nothing but you in essence.
>Think about this : What's that makes you think that the person
>or object across you is different from you? Is it the notion
>of yourself, being such a such a person, a distinct entity with
>individuality that makes you differentiate between yourself and
>the "rest"?
>If so, who are you? That, you're not the body or mind can be proved
>by Advaitic logic. So are you then something inside the body?
>If so who or what are you? Do you know yourself? Ofcourse you don't,
>else the mistaken identification with the mind-body-senses, with
>individuality itself will not occur.
>Use the "neti neti" as the benchmark - in discriminating between
>yourself and the non-you. Even as you progress, there'll still be
>you who will keep discriminating between yourself and the that
>which is not you. And what's you today, a month from now, itself will be
>split up into the you and the non-you as your powers of discrimination
>But when's there going to be an actual YOU devoid of the non-you?
>Only when all individuality has dissappeared - with no individuality who's
>in bondage and who's to be liberated? So ultimately there'll
>be no YOU - only brahman.
>But this doesn't mean that you with your body and mind will also disappear!
>It's only the *sense* of individuality, which distinguishes itself as an
>independent entity, which through austerity and meditation, will be
>dissolved. Without individuality, a jeevanmukta's work is like a non
>existent teacher (as he is devoid of individuality)
>teaching non existent pupils (as the students too are actually devoid
>of individuality in truth).
>So the *sense of individuality* is what's mAya. And to erase this is
>what all the shAstrAs attempt.
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>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Tue Sep 21 21:23:51 1999
Message-Id: <TUE.21.SEP.1999.212351.0500.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:23:51 -0500
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: Ravi <msr at COMCO.COM>
Subject: krama mukti
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like those who know more about krama mukti comment on

In advaita-vedAnta, mukti or liberation is through jnAna. That is
a first hand knowldge of brahmAnubhava, for that is the only way
to know brahman and that knowledge results in becoming brahman
(brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati).

In krama mukti it is said that the jIva goes to brahma loka and
eventually attain release there. Even in that state it must be
through jnAna only. Even in that loka, torments of duality should
persists and jiiva is still embodied in one form or other? May be
it is easier to attain knowledge in such higher loka-s as one may
be more advanced. On the other hand, it may be difficult there
due to the absence suffering which prompts one to think deeply
(as it is in this world).

Besides that it cannot be argued that one attains release after
100 years of brahma during the end of that cosmic cycle,
vivekachuDamaniH (verse 6? vadantu shaastrAni ..) states this. If
it is so how different it is from the shrIvaishNava concept

Is that loka guarantee a state of non-return to this loka as some
being (plant, animal, or human)? How does one go there (to brahma
loka)? By karma phalan? if so what happens after it is exhausted?

I don't think even vaikunta is a loka of non-return, a glaring
example of vijaya and jaya (who guard the entrance) were kicked
out because of their ahankaram (that still exists there) and came
here as asura-s for three times in row to expiate for that.
Purana-s have many incidents of curses were even their shakti-s
of mumurti-s were sent to earth. One can give any good
rationalizing argument or dump of all the singularity in a single
term "leela", but what good does it do?

I think state of duality, whether here or anywhere is a state of
misery and one has to obtain release from this bondage of
ignorance. I do not know, when I think about it now, krama mukti
does not sound like a mukti (till the actual mukti happens)

 Ultimately, the release is in form of jivana mukti in one way or

That is why, in advaita-vedanta when we worship any devata, we
worship them as brahman in essence and one has to attain it by
getting rid of the ignorance. The underlying mood is always,
"AsAvadityo brahma, brahmaiva satyam, brahmaivAhamasi". (in which
veda does this occur? , is it a simplfied for Asavadityo
brahmeti, brahmaiva san, brahmvaapyeti ya evam veda). We have
more opportunity to do kaimkaryam to bhagavan(if he really needs
it) here than in any other loka, and we will better of doing it
here rather than longing to go a particular loka.

Please do correct me.


bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam

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