mAyA & Re: Further to curiosity of Sri Jaladharji

Vaidya N. Sundaram sundaram at ECN.PURDUE.EDU
Wed Feb 24 10:39:33 CST 1999

 I have done my best to follow this discussion thread. I dont
believe i have seen the following description of mAyA. If it was
posted, and I am repeating, forgive me.

yA mA sa mAyA
that is is to say, what is not is mAyA.
Several analogies are son of a barren woman, horn of a rabbit,
drinking water from a mirage etc. They are not there. It is obvious
is that instance what mAyA is. The concept of seeeing a snake in a
rope, as has been mentioned before, is to explain the process of
super imposition. Why some thing which is NOT, is seen to BE.

Vivekananda Centre wrote:

Some time back I posed a question about rope in the snake does/does
not illustrate the relationship between maya and brahman. We have
had lot of interesting discussion. We had contributions by many
my ability I have systematically pointed out the flaws I saw in
these replies. There are flaws in every response we have seen so
far - the discussions have gone far enough - it is futile to
 An argument never goes futile unless the one arguing starts saying
"Oh, I am right, why do they still not see that?" FOrgive me for
being incisive, and dont start saying "Vaidya is angry", but being
incisive is not being angry. The point has to be made, in what ever
fashion, that intellectual reasoning cannot completely let go of
heated exchanges. That an argument comes up and it does not get
resolved soon, is not reason enough to brand it futile. There may
be winners and losers, but the argument is itself never futile. I
have gained immensely, and am sure that even if this argument were
to go on for a lot longer, as long as I am seeing what is not, it
is my duty and in my benefit to see it through, logically, to its

the member also wrote:

The thing that stops us from giving the correct response is 'ego'.
"We have a dogma to defend. We have a personality to uphold. We

 I beg to disagree. If a student says 2 + 2 is 5, would the
teacher say, "Oh, what an ego this child has?". Incorrect
responses are almost always, factual errors, or error in
observation, or the analysis. So, if you find an error, kindly
point it out.
 And dogma is not necessarily beyond the concept of defense. If
Shankara had not so vigourously defended Advaita and brought it
back from the cluthces of mistaken and misguided pundits, we would
not be doing this, would we? And is defending a concept the same
thing as being dogmatic?

 and also wrote:
to drag it down with us. Is there one amongst us who says he is
'established in adviata'? - Then why not a spirit of wanting to
learn from others?

 Ramana maharishi was know to say often: kandavar vindilar,
vindavar kandilar (in Tamil). The translation is, those who have
seen have not spoken, and those who speak have not seen. So, it is
obvious, atleast on the surface, that one who has spoken is likely
to have not seen! So, now you tell me, is trying to fathom the
depths only to find it unfathomable a crime in itself, that you
have call the few who give responses against your point of view as
those who drag down the concept with them. And what in heaven and
earth and all of creation makes you think that the person is going
down in the first place?

and also wrote:

He is curious about my 'ego' and spirit of learning.
I suspect he is still very angry with me.

??? where did that come from? ???

 And I also remember that you took exception when rama mentioned
some references to look up. I still cannot understand why he cannot
suggest a book, where answers to your questions are? If all you
need are answers, then, look for them.
 Another excellent source on what mAyA is, and how it operates, and
how the world we see becomes manifest from Brahman etc. is the
Panchadasi by VidyAranya Swami. Kindly refer to that also.

 I pray that the eternal Shambhu, who is also DakshinAmurthy, who
came to us and is with us as Shankara, completely guide us.

Bhava Shankara Desikame Sharanam.

                        Vaidya N. Sundaram
~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~
uddharedaatmanaatmaanaM naatmaanamavasaadayet.h |
aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatmanaH ||

Let a man raise himself by his own efforts. Let him not degrade himself.
Because a person's best friend or his worst enemy is, none other than his
own self. (BG 6.5)
~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~ ~+=+~

"bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam"
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