About Advaita, self and Jivanmuktha

Chuck Hillig chillig at JETLINK.NET
Sat Dec 18 16:30:26 CST 1999

At 03:36 PM 12/18/1999 EST, you wrote:
>>From: Chuck Hillig <chillig at JETLINK.NET>
>>3. A Jivanmuktha is all-knowing and is not subject to ignorance. He views
>> >everything with an equal eye.
>>      A Jivanmuktha does not "view" anything because there is no "separate"
>>thing to be viewed.   Actually, neither the Jnani, his "equal eye  nor the
>>"viewed object" is really present at all.   Only the Self is present.
>> >Also is it true that he knows bout his previous births and can  also find
>>out >the previous and future course of Births of the people who  approach
>>      They are only dreams-within-dreams.  But, "who" is the Dreamer?
>This would seem quite awkward to a novice (and they do exist). The idea that
>I am all there is is not for everyone.

Hi Ashish,

     Well, if it's not for "everyone" then it's not for "anyone."

>Even told by a Guru, without adequate preparation, it would only lead to

     That's OK.   From time to time, Consciousness "appears" to get
"confused."  Maharshi says that it's all a great game of pretending.  The
nature of the Self is to be what it is by pretending to become what it's
pretending to NOT be.

>Many people have compared the illusary nature of this world, and existence,
>with the dreaming state. That the One who awakens realizes the unreal nature
>of the thing called existence (yours and mine).
>I think an example was cited wherein Sri Sureshwaracharya gives the analogy
>of the Gyana (which is in the realm of Avidya ?) acting like a tiger in a
>dream that causes the sleeper to wake up.
>Seems to me, that Gyana causes the Brahma in us to become aware of its own
>existence/nature as Ayam Atma Brahma.
>But here is my confusion. The dream causes the one who is chased by a tiger
>to wake up. Gyana  directly causes the removal of Avidya. THAT IS ONLY TO
>THE PERSON IN THE DREAM (as also to the person in the realm of avidya). To
>the realized Self, there is no awakening. But what to the one who is being
>dreamt of ? To say that he doesn't exist just doesn't cut it. Seems like one
>does have to *get* to a stage to say something like I alone exist.

     Hmmmmm.   Well, even great old analogies (e.g. like the
"dream-and-the-dreamer" as well as the "world-as-a-movie") DO have their
limitations.   :-)

     You ask about the "one who is being dreamt of."   But, exactly "who"
would that be?  And, once again, exactly "who" is this Dreamer?  Isn't it
all just Consciousness?

    Yes, the dream and the dreamer appear to "exist"....but are they REALLY

    Reality is perhaps best determined by looking for "that which
persists."    However, neither the dream nor the dreamer fit that category
since neither of them last indefinitely.

     Only Consciousness "continues" unabated.

With Blessings,
             Chuck Hillig

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