[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Realization through Mind
nageeta at gmail.com
Sun Nov 9 12:08:21 CST 2014
Shri Sujal Ji,
That is a very nice explanation. From what has been my little experience,
in lay man terms, deep meditation is similar to being in deep sleep state
(non existence of mind and ego), but, occurring while we are not in deep
sleep. Nothing exists in deep meditation, including any experience, for, to
experience you are depending on the mind, which fails the effort of deep
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Namaste Sujal Ji
> Pranams. Thanks much for sharing this precise clarity.
> On 11/9/14, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Namaste,
> > What experience you have is because of mind only. But to experience there
> > has to be object of 'observation' that you can observe, see or be a
> > witness. Sri Ramana Maharshi has explained that like like a fire after
> > burning the corpse does not continue but extinguishes, similarly, with
> > help of mind and chanting mantra OM or by neti-neti, one can rise above
> > mind.
> > When the object of observation vanishes, only the observer remains. But
> > term 'observer' is relative and indicates that there must be something to
> > be 'observed' i.e. 'object of observation'. Hence only 'I' remains.
> > remember that existence of 'I' is Self evident. Without the first person
> > 'I', there cannot be 'you', the second person and 'he' the third' person.
> > After all thoughts, desires, objects floating in mind are uprooted, only
> > 'I' remains which is Brahman. Brahman can stay without mind, but not vice
> > versa. Brahman is pure consciousness.
> > Another example is of Pole Volt, in which an athlete runs with the long
> > bamboo (mind). There is a horizontal cross bar that one is supposed to
> > over it without touching it. After raising at a certain height and
> > position, athlete drops this pole and jumps on the 'other side', into the
> > infinite GYAnAkASa.
> > Mind is nothing but continuous flow of thoughts. When there is no
> > no desire, then there is no mind too. Without mind, samsAra cannot be
> > experienced, what remains is pure consciousness. AtmA lightens (empowers)
> > mind and itself stay in mind and lightens giving an illusion that mind
> > itself is chaitanya (subtle and Self Effulgent). But mind is like a moon.
> > OM or any Self Enquiry, Neti-Neti does not remain after silencing the
> > Another example is of camphor. It is used to clean water. After cleaning
> > dirt / impurities from water, it does not keep floating, but sinks to the
> > bottom.
> > Only that which is beyond mind can take you beyond mind. Hence Brahman is
> > always to be contemplated. No matter who many thoughts some and go, like
> > chatak bird, never be satisfied with Non-Self, until you are permanently
> > established in your true Self. Just like a Dog never forgets smell of his
> > master (though he may catch other smells) and keeps tracing master by his
> > smell, by never loosing the smell, so we should mediate on Brahman.
> > Just like one can reach ocean by walking in the direction of sound of
> > and just just like the invisible / cognizable ocean becomes visible upon
> > reaching sea-shore, so shall this Brahman be clearly known.
> > Just like when seeing shadow, Sun cannot be seen, but when we turn
> > Sun, shadow cannot be been, so when in brAhmi sthiti, Brahman is clearly
> > experienced (not separately), but not the samsAra. When one clearly
> > experiences samsAra and duality, Brahman cannot be experienced.
> > It is all or none theory.
> > So rise above mind with the help of mind. Meditation is not to control
> > thoughts, or keep focusing on thoughts or a mantra. But to be aware of
> > origin of a mantra which is silence, which is Brahman, which is 'I',
> > 'Atman'. Mind calms down when one, by the grace of God and Guru, is able
> > be aware of the source of mantra.
> > OM
> > Sujal Upadhyay
> > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > He who has faith has all
> > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> Namaste
> >> The mind is used to negate all the wrong notions about oneself (
> >> tattwa vichaara) with the help of Sruti and Guru upadesha.
> >> Regards
> >> On 11/9/14, umesh ramaswamy via Advaita-l
> >> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> > Respected Members,
> >> >
> >> > Vedas proclaim "Yato Vacho Nivartante Aprapya Manasasaha"....But looks
> >> like
> >> > one cannot go beyond mind because everything has to be cognized via
> >> > mind
> >> > only. Even during meditation if the mind is not centered it will
> >> all
> >> > over the places and realization cannot be had without the help of the
> >> mind.
> >> > I remember having read somewhere U.G.Krishnamurthy as saying, one
> >> > cannot
> >> go
> >> > beyond mind, and since everything has to be cognized through mind,
> >> > realization of Brahman (which is beyond mind) is a myth.
> >> > Can someone elaborate how Advaitic Realization is possible going
> >> > Mind? Is Nidhidhyasana is also through mind?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Umesh
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