Jagannath Chatterjee jagchat01 at YAHOO.COM
Fri Aug 16 10:14:43 CDT 2002

Dear Kiran,


First of all a little rule of the list. Stick to the title of the thread
without creating a new title while on the same subject. This helps the
members manage mails and also remember the thread.

--- Kiran B R <kiranbr at ROCKETMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> Many thanks for the responses to my question.
> As Sri Jagannath wills, I will first spend a few
> words
> on why I came to Advaita at all. It was basically
> because of the analytical manner in which Swami
> Vivekananda has explained the Universe in his book
> Jnana Yoga. Advaita is really my first brush with
> religion, and my knowledge of it is really in its
> infancy.

>From your poser it does not seem this is your first brush with religion.
However you may want it that way.

> Now to the answers to my question:
> This is from the answer of Sri Aniruddhan:
> ---
> Once the nirguna brahman, the Ultimate, is reached,
> why would a jnani, who has cast off all attachments
> to
> this world and in fact sees it as unreal, want to
> use
> his powers? The jnani definitely would have attained
> all powers to be attained (except creation of the
> universe).
> ---
> Why would he want to use? Because I want him to use.
> Because I want to know what he is. Because I want to
> know what his jnana is.

Fine, you want to test the jnana of the Lord. Everyone on this list would
like to do that. But you have to first know him is it not? That, my friend,
is a very tall order. Millions all over the globe strive to do that. But,
as so succintly pointed out by the Lord Himself, only a miniscule
percentage succeed.

> the following question arises:
> If Ishvara is a different "view" of the nirguNa
> braHman, and if the Universe is Ishvara's maayaa (of
> which Kiran filled with avidyA is part), what is it
> that prevents the braHmavid, who is nothing but the
> nirguNa braHman, from asking Ishvara to change some
> trivial rules of Physics for the sake of Kiran?
> The answer of Sri Jagannath mostly cautions a
> mumukShu
> that he should not be lured by trivial Raja Yogic
> powers.

You have probably not seen my mail on the title "Question".

Anyway, you are confusing a brahmavid with an avatara. The avatara (the
direct manifestation of the Lord by His control over maya) can bend all the
rules but not the Brahmavid.

>  Fine. But that does not answer my question.
> Can the braHmavid beat the laws of Physics? Can he
> control Maayaa? Can he run 100m in 2s? Yes or no?

If you want a straight answer as far as maya is concerned, it is NO!. The
brahmavid is no avatara. Why bother about the universe, take the example of
the human body. What is cancer? Its a case of certain cells of the body
running amuk defying all rules, is it not? A brahmavid, of all people,
would not like to set off such a chain reaction. Definitely not.

> My views (perhaps supported/not supported by the
> Shruthis) on this issue:
> In the Mahabharata we hear of magic-like acts
> performed by Bhagavan Sri Krishna. I would call that
> as throwing to the dustbin the laws that run this
> world, viz., the laws of Physics. I believe that
> Krishna, if he wills, can change this entire maayaa.
> If he wills, tomorrow water will turn into ice on
> heating. If he cannot, what is the point in calling
> him as Bhagavan? I wouldn't call him who has to bow
> down to the laws of Physics (maayaa) as Bhagavan. It
> is He who controls the laws of Physics who is
> Bhagavan.

It does not perturb Krishna one tiny bit whether any jiva call him Bhagavan
or not. Krishna can do anything if He so desires, repeat, if he so desires.
He can make an elephant to pass through the eye of a needle, as Sri
Ramakrishna puts it.

> And I believe that advaita says that it is Him that
> the braHmavid "becomes". If a long-distance runner's
> avidyA is completely removed, he "becomes" Bhagavan
> Krishna. This is my belief. Is it wrong? Please let
> me
> know.

The brahmavid does not become Krishna. He just merges into him and becomes
a part of him. It is called sajujya, the highest form of mukti a jiva can
aspire for. It is like this;

jiva -> seeker -> brahmavid -> sajujya mukti.

There is no question of the jiva or for that matter a brahmavid becoming

> According to me, a braHmavid has no incapabilities.
> If
> he has not the capability of controlling maayaa,
> Advaita becomes mostly a way of removing oneself
> from
> this maayaa whereas people sitting next to one are
> not
> helped in any way.

People are helped by the brahmavid. The help may be material if a brahmavid
so desires. Or it may be spiritual. Again it may be both material and
spiritual .It all depends on the brahmavid.

> We all have incapabilities in this maayaa which we
> live in. One thing is to get out of this maayaa,
> attain the "param" (braHmavidaapnOti param) and
> become
> one with the nirguNa braHman and never return to
> "do"
> any "karma" in this world. But of what use is the
> braHmavidyA and of what use is the braHmavid to this
> maayaalOka if Bhagavan Krishna does not keep his
> word
> of "sambhavAmi yugE yugE"? If the coming of Bhagavan
> Krishna is an event which cannot be influenced in
> any
> way by the braHmavid, I see that as an incapability
> in
> the braHmavid...which is not good!

Who are you fooling? Do you disbelieve in the words of the Lord? What would
you call personalities like Sri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramakrishna, Bhagawan
Sri Ramana?

But his coming does not depend on the "capabilities" of the brahmavid. It
depends on the prayers/aspirations of the masses. Whenever mankind faces a
crisis which cannot be solved but for his coming, he comes. If you study
the puranas carefully you will know that sometimes he comes even before the
crisis and lays out the solutions even before they are required. Who can
understand his leela!

> If I who now have innumerable incapabilities in this
> maayaa "become" the braHmavid, I want to come back
> to
> this maayaalOka on my own accord as The One without
> any incapabilities. That is, as Bhagavan Krishna.
> And
> if I cannot, braHmavidyA is not as useful as I
> thought
> it would be.

We look forward to your second coming. But for now you will have to be
satisfied with your present status of a seeker.

I hope I have hurt you with my comments,

Your friend as always,


More information about the Advaita-l mailing list